Help load development

[Hugnot]

Seems like too slow a twist for that long 1.5 plus inch bullet. I would not consider using it in a 8 twist under certain situations. Load some radically different ammo with shorter bullets and see what happens. It seems to what to shoot well except for fliers. This would eliminate bad scopes, loose mounts/rings, bad crown, bad brass, bad neck tension & whatever. Should any of these things be present groups would most likely be scattered within 2-3 inches except for scopes & mounts then it would be feet.

 

[Maol]

I would scope the barrel and chamber before going to Max pressure which might work with the 156, but the 1:8 twist is marginal. Then try one of 140 class pills and start over with one of them. Since it's a factory Savage the Tubbs firelapping might be worth a shot or two.

I have a Savage 6.5 PRC too so I am interested in how this turns out. I haven't put it on yet but I am thinking about Tubbs for it myself.

 

[sedancowboy]

Over the last couple of days I have read all the posts in this thread. We preceive there is a problem somewhere because we see 2 shots touching and think automaticaly that the 3rd one should go into the same group. We are not ever going to know until you shoot more than 3 shots. Is there two distinct groups or is this all the rifle is capable of.
One other cause I have found is the firing pin fall. Disassemble the bolt and check the inside bore of the bolt and firing pin for burrs. I have simply cleaned the bolt and firing pin and the problem went away without even knowing what I did. This has firing pin or trigger release written all over it.
Hope that helps
Henry

 

[sveltri]

I would scope the barrel and chamber before going to Max pressure which might work with the 156, but the 1:8 twist is marginal. Then try one of 140 class pills and start over with one of them. Since it's a factory Savage the Tubbs firelapping might be worth a shot or two.

I have a Savage 6.5 PRC too so I am interested in how this turns out. I haven't put it on yet but I am thinking about Tubbs for it myself.

My dad cleaned and scoped the barrel today, he's never seen a barrel clean up this easy and NO copper fouling.

 

[sveltri]

Over the last couple of days I have read all the posts in this thread. We preceive there is a problem somewhere because we see 2 shots touching and think automaticaly that the 3rd one should go into the same group. We are not ever going to know until you shoot more than 3 shots. Is there two distinct groups or is this all the rifle is capable of.
One other cause I have found is the firing pin fall. Disassemble the bolt and check the inside bore of the bolt and firing pin for burrs. I have simply cleaned the bolt and firing pin and the problem went away without even knowing what I did. This has firing pin or trigger release written all over it.
Hope that helps
Henry

We'll take a look at that and see what we find.

 

[sveltri]

Thank you all very much!

 

[Blue Ridge Rifleman]

View attachment 258654

Do you know which shot in the series is the flier? #1, #2 or #3?

 

[sveltri]

Do you know which shot in the series is the flier? #1, #2 or #3?

It varies. Sometimes 1&2 together 3 flies, 1&3 together 2 flies.

 

[nealm66]

Ended up being the stock/ bedding on my brothers savage 111. Wasn't 1 in 3 flier all the time, sometimes 1 in 10 . About an inch outside like that though.

 

[skipglo]

I am almost at my wits end with load development on my gun. Almost regardless of powder, charge, seating depth, and bench support I consistently shoot two touching (or very close and 1 out of the group. Most of them are MOA or sub, but this is driving me nuts. I have been bow hunting for the last 10 years and really only shot a few rounds before season (if I had a rifle tag) and then went hunting. I've killed everything I've shot for the last 10 with a gun. The first two pics below are 59.05 H1000 at likely 6 different seating depths, being new to reloading I was trying to test seating depth based on COAL (I've learned the errors of ways now), the bottom left is 59.5 H1000, middle is 60 H1000, the right is 56.5 RL26 all seated at the same depth. All groups are shot with 156 Berger's gun is a Savage UL 6.5 PRC. I know without a doubt some of this is me, but I doubt I'm exactly 66% right 100% of the time. Any thoughts, suggestions, or questions to help me figure this out?

Could be the margin of error...you could be right 66.6666 % of the time and your shot is .6666% out. Darn near what the target shows!

 

[Warbird2006]

The deer end elk are big animals. You are ok, I don't see a problem.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Shoot a larger group sampling. Even if it were the same shot in the string each time, its inconsistent placement. Sometimes high, others low, some right, and some left. Doesn't seem consistent. If a barrel issue, I would think if it were the barrel that might be more consistent, but not necessarily. Shoot more in a group and let the barrel cool plenty between shots.

 

[Maol]

Shoot a larger group sampling. Even if it were the same shot in the string each time, its inconsistent placement. Sometimes high, others low, some right, and some left. Doesn't seem consistent. If a barrel issue, I would think if it were the barrel that might be more consistent, but not necessarily. Shoot more in a group and let the barrel cool plenty between shots.

We have a cherished pencil barreled hunting rifle that clover leafs the 1st 3 out of a 'stone cold' barrel. It won't do it any other time. It has always been that way. Who cares what the 'Real' accuracy of such a very limited purpose & little used rifle is. We know exactly what we need to know already and have no need to shoot out the crisp & shiny barrel of a 64 yr old rifle that is RIGed and put up except for special occasions and hunts.

But we have more often used rifles that knowing the the real accuracy of is helpful. For competition it would obviously be imperative.

In an article by Damon Cali, two comments of his stand out re 3-shot groups.

"A few three shot groups is just not going to get you any confidence in your rifle's accuracy." & "In no situation should you ever use 3-shot groups to get an indication of accuracy. It's just not an efficient way to spend your money or your time."

Optimal Group Size for Rifles

Are 5-shot groups really better than 3-shot groups?

bisonballistics.com

Of the 4 ways to measure accuracy he goes on to say real people like us only have 2 practical methods that will get us within 20% of the 'true' group size with 90% confidence, without wearing out the barrel and our bank accts.

If you have more time than money, consider using the 'Figure of Merit' Method. It uses the average of the vertical and horizontal extreme spreads to evaluate groups & is a little more efficient than the 'Extreme Spread' Method which is what we are talking about here.

For either method optimal group size is closer to 5 than 7 and for our method 5-6 groups is needed for confidence in results. For me that translates into 6 groups of 5 for regular use rifles. If I were shooting competition it would be 5 groups of a competition string, shot at the pace of my competition.

We are using 'On Target' software to assist us, others may find it helpful too. Link below.

You are being redirected...

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Tiny Tim]

We have a cherished pencil barreled hunting rifle that clover leafs the 1st 3 out of a 'stone cold' barrel. It won't do it any other time. It has always been that way. Who cares what the 'Real' accuracy of such a very limited purpose & little used rifle is. We know exactly what we need to know already and have no need to shoot out the crisp & shiny barrel of a 64 yr old rifle that is RIGed and put up except for special occasions and hunts.

But we have more often used rifles that knowing the the real accuracy of is helpful. For competition it would obviously be imperative.

In an article by Damon Cali, two comments of his stand out re 3-shot groups.

"A few three shot groups is just not going to get you any confidence in your rifle's accuracy." & "In no situation should you ever use 3-shot groups to get an indication of accuracy. It's just not an efficient way to spend your money or your time."

Optimal Group Size for Rifles

Are 5-shot groups really better than 3-shot groups?

bisonballistics.com

Of the 4 ways to measure accuracy he goes on to say real people like us only have 2 practical methods that will get us within 20% of the 'true' group size with 90% confidence, without wearing out the barrel and our bank accts.

If you have more time than money, consider using the 'Figure of Merit' Method. It uses the average of the vertical and horizontal extreme spreads to evaluate groups & is a little more efficient than the 'Extreme Spread' Method which is what we are talking about here.

For either method optimal group size is closer to 5 than 7 and for our method 5-6 groups is needed for confidence in results. For me that translates into 6 groups of 5 for regular use rifles. If I were shooting competition it would be 5 groups of a competition string, shot at the pace of my competition.

We are using 'On Target' software to assist us, thers may too.

You are being redirected...

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the link. Interesting data.