Bullet Construction vs Lethality

[xsn10s]

Nice to see someone with what appears to be real test data and not a bunch of keyboard warriors using programs to form an opinion about bullets that they have not used or killed game with.

When you are talking about deceleration and effectiveness can you define short, mid, and long range?

Too bad Taj left. It would be nice to get another large manufacturer with real world knowledge back here.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Nice to see what testing both Badlands and Hammer has and continue to do to improve their product. As well as other's experiences using each one. Small companies, like them, usually don't have the unlimited resources to test like the large makers do, or the testing as some here would like to see. They do things in baby steps, you have to walk before you can run type stuff. Doesn't make them better or worse, and so we all rely on what they have done for testing and then we go to the field and range to do our own (as I do). People here should take what they've provided us, and what they've proven, and use it as they see fit. If you have a issue with what they've done or tested that's your problem, move on, and leave the thread. Quit making it a beatch session.

Edit add- there are Hammer cults, there are Badlands cults, there are Berger cults, 6.5 ManBun cults, etc…. whooooo cares…

 

[ButterBean]

Nice to see what testing both Badlands and Hammer has and continue to do to improve their product. As well as other's experiences using each one. Small companies, like them, usually don't have the unlimited resources to do some large makers to do the testing as some here would like to see. They do things in baby steps, you have to walk before you can run type stuff. Doesn't make them better or worse, and so we all rely on what they have done for testing and then we go to the field and range to do our own (as I do). People here should take what they've provided us and what they've proven and use it as they see fit. If you have an issue with what they've done or tested that's your problem, move on, and leave the thread. Quit making it a beatch session.

Well said

 

[Northkill]

Yes, CIP, SAAMI and NATO

I'm assuming you're running them into gel at 300 meters and at long range for terminal evaluation. Those results would be interesting as well.

 

[xsn10s]

Ballistics tunnels in my experience could be used for terminal performance tests. But are used more for production evaluation of presses. Accuracy/ bc. But I've done terminal performance tests in tunnels too. now I do my terminal performance and accuracy tests in the field.

 

[andrewpurcell222@yahoo]

Has anyone killed anything with the 205 badlands in this thread?

 

[HARPERC]

I don't remember the BC off hand. I do remember that the ELDM required less dope. The ELDM's weren't coldbore first round hits. Neither were the 168 CC's due to a wind change right when I pulled the trigger. I was on a hilltop and the bottle was about 8 degrees below me between two hilltops. So the wind was a bit more amplified than I thought. I didn't have a spotter so I had to use my reticle (SWFA 10X Milquad) to adjust. Hit the bottle on third shot with 168 CC's and second shot with 168 ELDM's. BC's definitely paid off. I compare shooting low bc high velocity to this like shooting a 22-250 40 gr to this. Yeah the 22-250 is fine out to 400 yards but then is like shooting a rock. And there isn't anything special about shooting a bullet over 4000 fps. I learned this decades ago. This concept isn't new, been around probably what almost nine decades? I'll take higher bc's any day.

LOL! I like that we're back to specifics.

Do you use these loads for LRH? Perhaps you would post your chart for comparison?

4000 fps isn't new, but bullets routinely standing up to it terminally are. Especially in usual hunting cartridges.

What do you consider minimum BC, a velocity thresholds to be?

 

[memtb]

LOL! I like that we're back to specifics.

Do you use these loads for LRH? Perhaps you would post your chart for comparison?

4000 fps isn't new, but bullets routinely standing up to it terminally are. Especially in usual hunting cartridges.

What do you consider minimum BC, a velocity thresholds to be?

To expound just a bit on what HARPEC said……how about we separate "HUNTING" bullets from match/target bullets!

I know, many feel that "match" bullets are great for hunting…..some of us prefer to use a "hunting" bullet for hunting!

So, when we compare all of these spectacular performance numbers at long range……let's separate the apples from the oranges! Please! memtb

 

[ButterBean]

LOL! I like that we're back to specifics.

Do you use these loads for LRH? Perhaps you would post your chart for comparison?

4000 fps isn't new, but bullets routinely standing up to it terminally are. Especially in usual hunting cartridges.

What do you consider minimum BC, a velocity thresholds to be?

To expound just a bit on what HARPEC said……how about we separate "HUNTING" bullets from match/target bullets!

I know, many feel that "match" bullets are great for hunting…..some of us prefer to use a "hunting" bullet for hunting!

So, when we compare all of these spectacular performance numbers at long range……let's separate the apples from the oranges! Please! memtb

As long as the BC is high it shouldn't matter

 

[xsn10s]

LOL! I like that we're back to specifics.

Do you use these loads for LRH? Perhaps you would post your chart for comparison?

4000 fps isn't new, but bullets routinely standing up to it terminally are. Especially in usual hunting cartridges.

What do you consider minimum BC, a velocity thresholds to be?

You wanted to see what I could do so I just showed you as you requested. My current big game loads are a Nosler AB 180 gr out of my 30-06. But that's just 0-400 yards. I use different rifles for different things. My 260 AI is for deer and varmints using the 145 MB. I do have some 140 gr ELDMs loaded for it and have 147 gr ELDM, 150 SMK on hand. My 7mm RM will be my LR big game rifle. 180 ELDM will be used for T&E of the rifle set up and possible hunting. If not I'll get some 180 Bergers.

 

[Northkill]

You wanted to see what I could do so I just showed you as you requested. My current big game loads are a Nosler AB 180 gr out of my 30-06. But that's just 0-400 yards. I use different rifles for different things. My 260 AI is for deer and varmints using the 145 MB. I do have some 140 gr ELDMs loaded for it and have 147 gr ELDM, 150 SMK on hand. My 7mm RM will be my LR big game rifle. 180 ELDM will be used for T&E of the rifle set up and possible hunting. If not I'll get some 180 Bergers.

Sincere question. I've always wondered how the MB's would work on deer. Never tried them myself at all. How much experience have you had with that application? Any special tricks to bullet prep to prevent terminal "failures"?

 

[memtb]

Sincere question. I've always wondered how the MB's would work on deer. Never tried them myself at all. How much experience have you had with that application? Any special tricks to bullet prep to prevent terminal "failures"?

I've heard of spectacular kills and spectacular failures! Inconsistency may be their only consistency! JMO

And Northkill, I'm certainly not attacking you…..it's just this seemed to be an appropriate place to state the following!

Not exactly addressing your question but something that "sticks in my craw"! Why do we have companies that spend untold dollars on research, and/or get thousands of individual comments by users in the field, yet we are determined to "improve" () their bullets…..by drilling larger holes in the tip, sprinkling them in Pixie Dust, soaking them in Chupacabra urine, ect to make them a better/improved bullet? Or…..use a bullet that is clearly defined as defined to serve another purpose?

What the heck! Do any of us believe that our very limited, as compared to most bullet manufacturers, experiences trump that of hundreds of hours research, and hundreds if not thousands of animals taken by factory produced bullets?

If a bullet appears to not meet your requirements……move along to another bullet! Or, have realistic expectations! Most any modification that we may attempt has likely been tried and dropped for some reason!

Rant over! memtb

 

[Northkill]

No offense @memtb Can't say I disagree with you. I was just curious is all. I'm pretty shy about anything that has a high "failure" rate or requires perfect shot opportunities to perform. That's why I use monos almost exclusively for hunting. At least if a rifle takes to one I'm satisfied with.

 

[Window]

Nice to see what testing both Badlands and Hammer has and continue to do to improve their product. As well as other's experiences using each one. Small companies, like them, usually don't have the unlimited resources to test like the large makers do, or the testing as some here would like to see. They do things in baby steps, you have to walk before you can run type stuff. Doesn't make them better or worse, and so we all rely on what they have done for testing and then we go to the field and range to do our own (as I do). People here should take what they've provided us, and what they've proven, and use it as they see fit. If you have a issue with what they've done or tested that's your problem, move on, and leave the thread. Quit making it a beatch session.

Edit add- there are Hammer cults, there are Badlands cults, there are Berger cults, 6.5 ManBun cults, etc…. whooooo cares…

Well said and I'm a what works CULT. I love them all for different reasons except for Badlands because I've haven't ran them yet.