Bullet Construction vs Lethality

[WeiserBucks]

I'd bet you a steak dinner that 80% of the RMEF members have never even shot at an elk, much less killed one and that 50% have never even seen one in person.

 

[nralifer]

When are you going to tell us about the bullets you make, why they're the best and why everything else sucks?

No need to be sarcastic. Seems like you know all there is to know, so this thread may not help you. Ideally the discussion in these threads are intended to give the less knowledgeable member some new knowledge and understanding of what they are doing. I certainly don't know it all, and participating in threads also teaches me something also.

 

[Petey308]

 

[Pdvdh]

I'd bet you a steak dinner that 80% of the RMEF members have never even shot at an elk, much less killed one and that 50% have never even seen one in person.

That's a big contribution to nothing at all related to this thread. Just go ahead and tell us you luv Burgers. Then check out for good.

 

[Petey308]

In all seriousness though, this subject is pretty near and dear to me, so I'll be watching with much interest. Hope to learn something, but I fear the most to learn from this particular thread will be the character of some.

 

[WeiserBucks]

That's a big contribution to nothing at all related to this thread. Just go ahead and tell us you luv Bergers. Then check out for good.

When anyone tries to use an organization full of $$ donors with no experience as evidence of a product working or not working, it's related to the thread and I know where the door is and I'll see myself out when the time comes.

 

[Pdvdh]

When anyone tries to use an organization full of $$ donors with no experience as evidence of a product working or not working, it's related to the thread and I know where the door is and I'll see myself out when the time comes.

Such a big boy. Your time has already come and gone.
Now go ahead and pout some more. Put on a show...

 

[DoneNOut]

I think there would need to be discussion on proprietary composition of the bullets and an explanation by copper bullet manufacturers as to why they chose the composition for the final product. What made the final product choice "better" than competitor bullets. Until manufacturers are ready to produce that industry sensitive/classified information, I think trying to obtain anecdotal evidence on performance by consumers/hunters is potentially an exercise in futility in determining the best bullet.

That's about as much smarts a I can let out today. Gonna go shoot some stuff!

 

[nralifer]

In all seriousness though, this subject is pretty near and dear to me, so I'll be watching with much interest. Hope to learn something, but I fear the most to learn from this particular thread will be the character of some.

Now that is the right attitude. Despite what you learn on this thread you are certainly free to use any bullet you want. The importance of this information is to recognize the limitations snd advantages of copper vs lead core bullets and accept them for what they are. None of the bullets we make are suitable for home defense because of the penetration characteristic that would put innocents at risk. If you have any topic you would like to discuss, please bring it up.

 

[Petey308]

Now that is the right attitude. Despite what you learn on this thread you are certainly free to use any bullet you want. The importance of this information is to recognize the limitations snd advantages of copper vs lead core bullets and accept them for what they are. None of the bullets we make are suitable for home defense because of the penetration characteristic that would put innocents at risk. If you have any topic you would like to discuss, please bring it up.

I have brought up many topics on this subject. Sometimes it's gone well, being told I've made the best post in this forum, while other times I was accused of nefarious intent. I'm not here to impress anyone though, nor am I here to stir any pot and go after anyone or anything.

I've cut apart a lot of bullets and still have a TON in the shop awaiting time to cut apart. I intend to test them all too on animals, and in controlled media. The controlled media test would simply be a way to compare bullets in a controlled method, but then also show the contrast on game and how other variables can change the results.

I've tested quite a few on game myself, while others I've so far had to settle on close friends or acquaintances to share their details on their experiences. I used to have a lot more time for this stuff before having kids, especially now that my kids are at the ages they take all my free time.

I'm happy to put the hunting and bullet testing on the back burner though, as they're only young once and will be grown and out of the house before I know it. I can always get back to the hunting and testing, I can't get that time back with them though.

At any rate, I do what I can for now, when I can, and discuss and debate when I can, to hopefully learn and share to fill the gaps.

I've learned a ton already, and I know there's much to learn still. Despite what some have concluded, I do keep an open mind and I know all bullets have their place and certain limitations. You mentioned a limitation with yours is that they're not suitable for home defense. That's a fine example. Some see the mention of limitations as though it means the bullet isn't that good in general. It doesn't necessarily mean that at all.

There is in fact no magic bullet, therefore every bullet has limitations. Finding what each one's strengths and weaknesses are is what it's all about in order to equip the hunter with the knowledge and resources to set them up best for success. That's always been my main goal and intent.

Again, hopefully this thread matures and we can get some good discussion from it and maybe learn some things without emotions getting in the way.

 

[comfisherman]

I'd argue the partition was darn near perfect until we add distance over 500 yards or lead bans. Made a believer out of me since my youth. Soft enough to expand but tough enough to push and retain mass. But they have a less than stellar ballistic coefficient. Back a decade and a half ago you could get sps partitions really cheap in seconds form. For kicks and giggles we shot ground squirrels with a 7 rum loaded with partitions(had a barrel that shot them well and nothing else all that stellar) the misgivings in bc showed up as range increased and much more so as the wind progressed.

Truth be told each bullet has an application, i prefer a frames in only Moose and bear territory. I skew towards lighter jacket higher b.c. bullets as the Bears go to sleep or I'm hunting in areas with low bear interaction.

Heck in the 338 heydeys we saw in the early 2000s I saw a lot of 300 grain smk bullets harvest game. Doesn't mean I'd recommend all smks for Cow elk or white tail, just that a large mass of lead at the proper impact range can be very effective. Same could probably be said for bergers. Doesn't mean it's a good choice to harvest your next Brown bear with one in your 6mn creed....


Our forefathers hunted with much less tech for man years. Bullet tech will always be second to bullet placement.

 

[ButterBean]

Skip the popcorn boys! I'm digging out the MREs for this one!

I personally think terminal ballistics of a bullet outweigh the BC aspect of a bullet. I know BC is a part of the equation, but I bullet drop test my stuff before the hunt. You know, like enter the data into the ballistics calculator and then shoot it and see what differences are observable.

X-2

 

[BEEMAN]

Now that is the right attitude. Despite what you learn on this thread you are certainly free to use any bullet you want. The importance of this information is to recognize the limitations snd advantages of copper vs lead core bullets and accept them for what they are. None of the bullets we make are suitable for home defense because of the penetration characteristic that would put innocents at risk. If you have any topic you would like to discuss, please bring it up.

What I'm interested in finding out is why some manufacturers prefer mushrooms instead of shedding petals?

Why did you design your bullet to mushroom and not shed petals? Did you test both designs? And what were the outcomes, and what tests were conducted?

 

[nralifer]

Skip the popcorn boys! I'm digging out the MREs for this one!

I personally think terminal ballistics of a bullet outweigh the BC aspect of a bullet. I know BC is a part of the equation, but I bullet drop test my stuff before the hunt. You know, like enter the data into the ballistics calculator and then shoot it and see what differences are observable.

BC is very important for two reasons. The first is that high BC bullets shoot flatter and have less wind drift than low BC ones. The second is that BC determines the effective range of the bullet given the impact speed necessary for a reliable expansion. If the BC difference is large enough it can make a huge difference in bullet energy. I have tested the BC on 150 gr 308 bullets and compared them to our BC on our 150 gr bullet and saw that under standard conditions the Bullet energy differed by about 500 ft-lbs at 600 yds in favor of our bullet. Both were shot at comparable speeds.