Bull Elk. Berger 195 EOL terminal performance video.

[bigngreen]

I believe the arrow part to be true. Just now thinking about it. Have you ever heard a deer or elk make any vocal sounds when shot ? Not screaming you shot me you sob but actual , I don't know the word for it but vocal pain noises like a hurt dog, coyote or hog makes. I haven't ever heard. I've heard fawns yell when chased by coyotes. I don't think on a good shot deer , elk, moose, bighorn, etc. have time to think about the pain.

I have herd multiple deer make the worst crying bleat sound from top of the shoulder spine shots, it's very disheartening!!

 

[Raudy707]

Me too. It sucked. I shot a buck in the back when attempting a running shot on a cripple buck going on 3 legs. The shot hit him in the back and he wailed like a sheep bahhhhhhhhhh in pain. I couldn't get the follow-up shot into him quick enough. I was 17 and still remember it like yesterday 30 years later. I felt like frog poop. Lower than pond scum. Spine shots will make a buck yelp. Bears make some major audible moans and sounds when they get hit. Never heard an elk make a noise at all.

 

[Calvin45]

Me too. It sucked. I shot a buck in the back when attempting a running shot on a cripple buck going on 3 legs. The shot hit him in the back and he wailed like a sheep bahhhhhhhhhh in pain. I couldn't get the follow-up shot into him quick enough. I was 17 and still remember it like yesterday 30 years later. I felt like frog poop. Lower than pond scum. Spine shots will make a buck yelp. Bears make some major audible moans and sounds when they get hit. Never heard an elk make a noise at all.

That sucks man. I remember when I was 17 there was a young bear spotted near my gramma's house (rural setting) and one of her miniature horses was missing as well. So my dad and I head over with our guns (I had a rifle, he had a shotgun) to assess the situation…we see the bear and he's got something he's not willing to leave, even as he's agitated that we're getting a bit closer now. I recall telling my dad "I think i can take him from here if that's what you think needs to happen"

And he replied sternly with "you think you can or you're certain you can?"

And I thought he was gonna say about how dangerous it would be to follow a poorly hit bear into the bush…but instead he said "you've never heard what that sounds like and I hope you never do, a wounded bear. They blubber and cry almost like a person and you'll feel sick to your stomach".

I opted not to pull the trigger. Turned out the horse had just escaped and the bear was guarding a chokecherry bush he didn't want to give up. Glad we left him be.

 

[Calvin45]

Me too. It sucked. I shot a buck in the back when attempting a running shot on a cripple buck going on 3 legs. The shot hit him in the back and he wailed like a sheep bahhhhhhhhhh in pain. I couldn't get the follow-up shot into him quick enough. I was 17 and still remember it like yesterday 30 years later. I felt like frog poop. Lower than pond scum. Spine shots will make a buck yelp. Bears make some major audible moans and sounds when they get hit. Never heard an elk make a noise at all.

That sucks man. I remember when I was 17 there was a young bear spotted near my gramma's house (rural setting) and one of her miniature horses was missing as well. So my dad and I head over with our guns (I had a rifle, he had a shotgun) to assess the situation…we see the bear and he's got something he's not willing to leave, even as he's agitated that we're getting a bit closer now. I recall telling my dad "I think i can take him from here if that's what you think needs to happen"

And he replied sternly with "you think you can or you're certain you can?"

And I thought he was gonna say about how dangerous it would be to follow a poorly hit bear into the bush…but instead he said "you've never heard what that sounds like and I hope you never do, a wounded bear. They blubber and cry almost like a person and you'll feel sick to your stomach".

I opted not to pull the trigger. Turned out the horse had just escaped and the bear was guarding a chokecherry bush he didn't want to give up. Glad we left him be.

 

[bigngreen]

Id have to disagree, never seen a big bull physically able to move with broken shoulder, i have seen them run off heart blown out and both lungs gone. If i watch them tip over i know what happened

I've found them a long ways down in the worst crud and down fall just pushing with their back legs. I've seen a cow with two broke shoulder get her rear end under her jump forward then repeat. Had a doe antelope do the same thing, blew up out of the bottomed of a little draw with both front wheels out and getting along on her back feet good enough I had to run her down after realizing what I had just saw go by me.
I've now seen two elk healed over with an arrow side to side above the lungs in the pocket.
Cut a LOT of elk with healed shoulders that were shot, especially bulls, shot a cow running through the timber and when we cut her the top of her spine over the shoulder was blown of and healed over.
Can't count the number of broad heads I've found in elk, stuck in shoulders, spines, hips.
They can be resilient but most certainly not tough to kill, a white tail with their heart shot out will make it much farther than an elk will!!!

 

[WYO300RUM]

Me too. It sucked. I shot a buck in the back when attempting a running shot on a cripple buck going on 3 legs. The shot hit him in the back and he wailed like a sheep bahhhhhhhhhh in pain. I couldn't get the follow-up shot into him quick enough. I was 17 and still remember it like yesterday 30 years later. I felt like frog poop. Lower than pond scum. Spine shots will make a buck yelp. Bears make some major audible moans and sounds when they get hit. Never heard an elk make a noise at all.

I've heard bears but not deer or elk.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I've found them a long ways down in the worst crud and down fall just pushing with their back legs. I've seen a cow with two broke shoulder get her rear end under her jump forward then repeat. Had a doe antelope do the same thing, blew up out of the bottomed of a little draw with both front wheels out and getting along on her back feet good enough I had to run her down after realizing what I had just saw go by me.
I've now seen two elk healed over with an arrow side to side above the lungs in the pocket.
Cut a LOT of elk with healed shoulders that were shot, especially bulls, shot a cow running through the timber and when we cut her the top of her spine over the shoulder was blown of and healed over.
Can't count the number of broad heads I've found in elk, stuck in shoulders, spines, hips.
They can be resilient but most certainly not tough to kill, a white tail with their heart shot out will make it much farther than an elk will!!!

I've found broadheads in deer also. In Utah I found one in a bucks skull ! I thought how miserable the deer must have been for a month or so. How do you put an arrow in a deers head ? Same way I've found them in elks butt's I guess....

 

[Raudy707]

Yep. Just like with rifle seasons. Guys are continually shooting beyond their skill level. Think if they can ring steel at 1000 they can kill elk in the mountains. There's a huge difference. I shoot at 100 yds for practice with my bow. On a good day I'll put 3 on my block in a 10 inch group. Do I shoot live game past 50? No. Very seldom. I can stack arrows at 60 yds but unless its a coyote or varmint type animal I typically won't fling an arrow that distance. Friday I shot 2 arrows at 100 yds after shooting 60 arrows preparing for turkey season. My first shot was a hair low bounced off the dirt and stuck in the block. I ranged it again and realized it was a 102 yds so I step 2 paces ahead and shot again. I tried to post the live video but it says mp4 won't upload. Anyways, I'll post the pictures. I don't care if a 420 inch bull was standing at 100 yds I would never even draw back. But I have seen plenty of guys that do it with archery and rifles. I'm not going to preach ethics or respect but there's a lack of both out there in the hunting world and it makes all of us look bad.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Yep. Just like with rifle seasons. Guys are continually shooting beyond their skill level. Think if they can ring steel at 1000 they can kill elk in the mountains. There's a huge difference. I shoot at 100 yds for practice with my bow. On a good day I'll put 3 on my block in a 10 inch group. Do I shoot live game past 50? No. Very seldom. I can stack arrows at 60 yds but unless its a coyote or varmint type animal I typically won't fling an arrow that distance. Friday I shot 2 arrows at 100 yds after shooting 60 arrows preparing for turkey season. My first shot was a hair low bounced off the dirt and stuck in the block. I ranged it again and realized it was a 102 yds so I step 2 paces ahead and shot again. I tried to post the live video but it says mp4 won't upload. Anyways, I'll post the pictures. I don't care if a 420 inch bull was standing at 100 yds I would never even draw back. But I have seen plenty of guys that do it with archery and rifles. I'm not going to preach ethics or respect but there's a lack of both out there in the hunting world and it makes all of us look bad.

Amen to that brother. I miss those oak trees ...

 

[bigngreen]

I've not recovered one archery bull, put an average 6pnt bull in my buddies lap, after I got done throwing gear and calmed the profanity down I stepped it of at one step from boot track to hoof track and he puts an arrow in the shoulder, he had an entire bull elk to shoot at a range the arrow barely cleared his bow before hitting elk and he punched the shoulder, 4 inches of penetration and left a broad head in it. I'm still ****ed about it and remind him 23 years after!! He got his broad head back during rifle season though.

 

[Raudy707]

I think a 195 would fair a hell of a lot better on a shoulder blade than a broadhead. And you can tell guys and for some crazy reason, like a magnet they will hit the front leg bone or shoulder blade. Bye bye bull. With big mature bulls the Bergers and broadheads need to be in the crease.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I've not recovered one archery bull, put an average 6pnt bull in my buddies lap, after I got done throwing gear and calmed the profanity down I stepped it of at one step from boot track to hoof track and he puts an arrow in the shoulder, he had an entire bull elk to shoot at a range the arrow barely cleared his bow before hitting elk and he punched the shoulder, 4 inches of penetration and left a broad head in it. I'm still ****ed about it and remind him 23 years after!! He got his broad head back during rifle season though.

I'd never intensionally shoot an elk in the shoulder with an arrow. I rifle I will. I saw a friend hit a bull in shoulder with an arrow at about 35 yds. It ran off with arrow sticking out of shoulder. We found it broke off. He was very upset about it. I just had to tell him that the bull will live. You just hit bone... I had another buddy that with rifle or arrow most times hit hind end. I couldn't understand it . Ticked me off. I told story off of a archery cow elk hit in butt. I called it out of trees and shot it. The archery spine shot elk from treestand I mentioned. Right before I shot the cow I heard what I thought was an elk fall/crash right below me. I was starting to cut my elk up and he showed up. Said he thought he hit an elk. I said lets look down the hill aways. I heard something. Sure enough. Dead cow. Arrow hit femoral artery in hind leg... Lucky we found it... He gut shot a bull with an arrow following year. He couldn't find it. I went to where he shot and started tracking. About 400 yds. Into it I could smell guts. I said where did you hit him. I don't know for sure ??? Found him. I told him it's your baby know. He kept wanting to throw up. I said we aren't going to gut it. He couldn't handle the smell so guess who got to do it...? He would puke just gutting deer. He finally moved back to Ar..

 

[WYO300RUM]

I think a 195 would fair a hell of a lot better on a shoulder blade than a broadhead. And you can tell guys and for some crazy reason, like a magnet they will hit the front leg bone or shoulder blade. Bye bye bull. With big mature bulls the Bergers and broadheads need to be in the crease.

Amen once again !

 

[bigngreen]

No doubt!! I've had guys ask me on the trip out where to hold for a perfect shoulder shot like you see on TV, I tell them no higher than half way down and back six inches from the crease and every single freaking time dead center of the shoulder OR right over the spine cause they don't understand how deep a bulls shoulders are and away they go. I've pointed out on a dead elk exactly where I want a bullet to go and an hour later center of the freaking shoulder!! Personally I wouldn't let anyone shoulder shoot one unless the were shooting a 200+ gr 30 cal or a 300 gr 338, or I knew the guy and he was capable of putting a couple in them if the first bullet didn't get through. I've shot a good number of elk through the center of the shoulder and I have not had a Berger not make it through, the highest number have been with 140 Berger, 215, 230, and 300gr, the 200 gr Accubonds was Ok, the 180 was fail city!! That's why the 200+ gr rule started.