Barrel Replacement - Remage question

[TobiasPA]

I'm on the low end of the hobbyist range and have put new barrels on a bunch of Savage actions. It can become an addiction quickly, at least for some of us. You can get barrels in a wide range of different calibers, twist rates, and contours. Send in some dummy rounds and have it cut for your specific bullet. Endless possibilities to experiment and learn.

For a hunting rifle out to 500 yards, I would say get the barrel and have fun. I have only used prefits from Shilen and Criterion and they work well for me.

Just be aware that you will start ordering more barrels and looking for donor actions in all the wrong places shortly after you have completed this build. You didn't buy all these fancy tools to just use them once, did you?

 

[cajun]

I'm on the low end of the hobbyist range and have put new barrels on a bunch of Savage actions. It can become an addiction quickly, at least for some of us. You can get barrels in a wide range of different calibers, twist rates, and contours. Send in some dummy rounds and have it cut for your specific bullet. Endless possibilities to experiment and learn.

For a hunting rifle out to 500 yards, I would say get the barrel and have fun. I have only used prefits from Shilen and Criterion and they work well for me.

Just be aware that you will start ordering more barrels and looking for donor actions in all the wrong places shortly after you have completed this build. You didn't buy all these fancy tools to just use them once, did you?

I can see this coming. I have one I just put together and already wanting to do another one. I think the next time I'm going to build on a origin action that has savage threads.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I'm in the same boat as many here. I built my daughter a triple deuce with a remage set up and now am sourcing parts for a 6cm for my wife. It's crazy addicting and if selective with your components, can produce some very nice shooting guns.

 

[A1C]

Hello folks, I'm thinking of replacing a barrel on an 700 action I have. I want to play around with a Remage from a hobbyist perspective. A friend of mine suggested that I was wasting my time just replacing a barrel. He feels that as a first step I should have the action trued, which would mean I would need a custom barrel (as I understand) for oversized threads. I understand that a custom or trued action will give me the best results. I feel strongly that the barrel is the most important part of the package and think that a plain Remage barrel by a maker like Shilen will probably really shoot no matter what. I can't shoot better than about 1/3 MOA anyway and I only take hunting shots to 500 yards or so. I have lots of factory guns that shoot to my capability. I really want to replace the barrel to get my caliber, twist, and barrel weight choice. In my head it is a cost benefit question. What are your thoughts?

Not exactly the same situation you're in, but I've bought and shot more than a dozen shilen or criterion barrels (savage prefits) that have all shot very well. Everyone of them has shot several groups just through load development in the .1s with most getting a couple in the .0s.
they're fantastic barrels and are so easy to swap out once you get the hang of it. It really opens the door to so much less wait time from smiths. You can change a barrel out in a few minutes which I do with regularity.
I haven't tried them all but the ones I can remember are: 6 CM, 25CM, 22CM, 280 AI, 223 rem, 300WM, 20 Practical, 300 PRC… they all shoot amazing!

You won't regret it! You can buy a spun barrel for the same (or a hair less) than the most expensive brands barrel blanks. I'm not comparing these to the highest end barrel manufacturers, however, for a barrel to shoot consistently in the .2s consistently or better, that's also the definition of a great barrel to me. I own many barrels that are the most expensive in the industry and have gone down the custom plenty of times as well and they have their place as well.
I've found that my shilens/criterion's are the barrels I shoot the most as the value (performance vs cost) is the very best! Go for it I say!

 

[7mm man]

Single-pointing the receiver threads oversize to "true" them is probably the worst return on investment one can make on an M700 receiver (and this is coming from a smith). Extremely rare for them to be non-concentric enough to cause a problem that would manifest at the target- and for a hunting rifle, a total waste of your $$$.

For shouldered barrels that I fit to customers' rifles, I true the receiver ring and bolt lugs to get them concentric to the bolt raceway and leave it at that.

Given that you're rebarelling a rifle you own- if it didn't manifest any accuracy issues with the original barrel, no reason to fix it if it ain't broke.

Screw on the barrel and shoot it.

I agree. I have trued several of my 700's, 721's, 722's, etc. I have never oversized the threads and they shoot fantastic just concentric to the bolt raceway. I have done a few remage and they are ok. I prefer shouldered though.

 

[mongo4567]

I thought I would provide my results and some lessons learned. It looks like it is going to shoot great. It is a stainless 7 twist .223 from Patriot Valley Arms, 24" and threaded heavy varmint. The best group I got was with some 62grn federal/american eagle, with one of the ar10 guys with a loud brake shooting a round a second and a 20 round mag at a time, and with the wind howling. I was really just breaking it in before shooting a ladder. Lots of touching bullet holes and some jittery flyers.

Lessons learned

1. Use a receiver wrench that holds on the inside of the lugs from the rear. As you can see I scuffed up my receiver with an action wrench that holds on the outside of the receiver. That finish wear was from putting the receiver into the wrench. The tool mfg said: factory Remington actions are too inconsistent to hold without marring the surface. I'm just glad I didn't start with something nice.

2. Use a savage style barrel nut. I wanted to use a 6 point nut for appearances: as a Remington guy I just think the Savage nut is kinda ugly. While you can use a large crow foot open end or make your own tool, it is hard to simply achieve a precise 60ftlb torque and not mar the finish on your barrel nut. If you use a Savage nut there a large number of short wrenches with a 1/2" drive hole to simplify torqueing. I've been through the same exercise with some AR10 barrel nuts that use flats and proprietary wrench sizes (not metric or standard).

 

[7mm man]

I thought I would provide my results and some lessons learned. It looks like it is going to shoot great. It is a stainless 7 twist .223 from Patriot Valley Arms, 24" and threaded heavy varmint. The best group I got was with some 62grn federal/american eagle, with one of the ar10 guys with a loud brake shooting a round a second and a 20 round mag at a time, and with the wind howling. I was really just breaking it in before shooting a ladder. Lots of touching bullet holes and some jittery flyers.

Lessons learned

1. Use a receiver wrench that holds on the inside of the lugs from the rear. As you can see I scuffed up my receiver with an action wrench that holds on the outside of the receiver. That finish wear was from putting the receiver into the wrench. The tool mfg said: factory Remington actions are too inconsistent to hold without marring the surface. I'm just glad I didn't start with something nice.

2. Use a savage style barrel nut. I wanted to use a 6 point nut for appearances: as a Remington guy I just think the Savage nut is kinda ugly. While you can use a large crow foot open end or make your own tool, it is hard to simply achieve a precise 60ftlb torque and not mar the finish on your barrel nut. If you use a Savage nut there a large number of short wrenches with a 1/2" drive hole to simplify torqueing. I've been through the same exercise with some AR10 barrel nuts that use flats and proprietary wrench sizes (not metric or standard).

When I do it I put masking tape on everything that may get touched. That being said, a rear entry action wrench like one from Short Action Customs is great. I use it for anything new. If I am breaking an old action off a barrel I use the wrench from wheeler that screws into your action and hugs the outside. Nice group.

 

[VinceMule]

Dry Wall tape on the barrel is a winner in gripping the barrel. Cardboard from Cereal boxes is another great option.

On those barrel nuts with the flats, use two layers of masking tape on the jaws of the adjustable wrench to keep from marring up the nut surface, which is difficult to do.

 

[mongo4567]

I used drywall tape on the barrel removal. I used plain copy paper between surfaces to keep from marring the nut.

 

[DirectDrive]

I thought I would provide my results and some lessons learned. It looks like it is going to shoot great. It is a stainless 7 twist .223 from Patriot Valley Arms, 24" and threaded heavy varmint. The best group I got was with some 62grn federal/american eagle, with one of the ar10 guys with a loud brake shooting a round a second and a 20 round mag at a time, and with the wind howling. I was really just breaking it in before shooting a ladder. Lots of touching bullet holes and some jittery flyers.

Lessons learned

1. Use a receiver wrench that holds on the inside of the lugs from the rear. As you can see I scuffed up my receiver with an action wrench that holds on the outside of the receiver. That finish wear was from putting the receiver into the wrench. The tool mfg said: factory Remington actions are too inconsistent to hold without marring the surface. I'm just glad I didn't start with something nice.

2. Use a savage style barrel nut. I wanted to use a 6 point nut for appearances: as a Remington guy I just think the Savage nut is kinda ugly. While you can use a large crow foot open end or make your own tool, it is hard to simply achieve a precise 60ftlb torque and not mar the finish on your barrel nut. If you use a Savage nut there a large number of short wrenches with a 1/2" drive hole to simplify torqueing. I've been through the same exercise with some AR10 barrel nuts that use flats and proprietary wrench sizes (not metric or standard).

I see where many go 40 ft lbs

 

[VinceMule]

60 is better.

 

[DirectDrive]

60 is better.

You can go 60.
I'm going to go 35-40.

 

[VinceMule]

When I was shooting Benchrest comp, we found that barrels can loosen up. When we started tightening up our barrels to 100 FT lbs, groups tightened. This is contrary to when I was shooting Comp, I could use a strap wrench to take off a barrel, then spin on a barrel and snap it into place with my hands, with the butt being held between my two feet. I was usually only off 1.5" point of impact between the two barrels.

So, after Steve Hendry in Ogden, Utah did all the experiments on barrel tightness, I would opt to go tighter ves looser. Steve was the Utah state champion benchrest shooter for many years running, an avid gunsmith, and head of the Aircraft repair shop up in Ogden, a tooling engineer.

 

[7mm man]

I have heard theories that shouldered barrels can be more accurate than barrels using a nut. The shoulder dampens the harmonics. While the barrel nut doesn't square up to the action with a solid surface leaving area for vibrations in between the threads of the nut and barrel. Sounds true. I have never looked to see if anyone tested it. What's funny is the best group I ever shot was with my Savage 110 ultralight with a sendaro lite CF barrel from proof and obviously with a barrel nut. My guess is you don't start seeing a real difference until benchrest or at least highly controlled match tolerances with everything.