7mm Terminal Performance Issues? True or False?

Curiously, I've had 100% success with pass throughs and Barnes, btips. I cannot say the same for Accubonds, Speer, Sierra, and factory cheap bullets. But all the animals were dead right on the spot or within a few steps.

I do not recommend SST bullets. I do not have experience with interbonds or Etips yet.

I'm still waiting on Nosler to put a plastic tip on a partition. The Federal tipped trophy bonded bullet looks like a decent bullet so far. It's basically a tipped barnes triple shock with a lead front. I think they nickel coat them.
 
A 7mm bullet in the 154-168 gr weight class has about the same sectional density as a 30 cal in the 180-190 gr. So I compared all the reviews at midway usa of all premium bullets in these two weight classes. Nothing at all scientific just a bunch of opinions and experiences just like this forum.
The Hornady interlock (ssts and spire points) had several complaints of blow ups in both calibers and I don't consider them to be a premium bullet so I threw them out.
Not one person mentioned any premium 7mm bullets 154-168 blowing up or penciling through without expanding. That certainly does not mean it doesn't happen but no one wrote in and complained of this.
Now for 30 cal. six people had blow ups in the 180 AB alone, even the partition had a report of a blow up. All in all on this site, there were simply way more reports of blow ups or penciling in 30 cal than in 7mm.
Does that mean I am going to question the effectiveness or reliability of a 180-190 grain 30 cal to kill? Nope, I wouldn't dare question the effectiveness of another experienced hunters rifle, (all though it does make for an interesting thread!) I have also killed enough critters with a 277, 284, and 308 bullet to know they all kill just fine. I just happen to prefer the 284 because my current favorite elk gun happens to shoot these bullets!
Use the right bullet at the right velocity with the right shot placement and all 3 of these calibers will consistently fill any tag in MT where I have grown up hunting. And yes even a 7-08 with a 160ish gr bullet will consistently kill elk well beyond 300 yards. So will a 270 with a 140-150gr bullet, or a 308 with a 180 gr. Just because a few experienced hunters out there claim one caliber doesn't cut it does not mean much to me. There are FAR more stories of success than failure with any of these mentioned calibers.
 
NZ Longranger,
Oh, off topic, I just watched the video GET AMONGST IT. Do you happen to know wich NZ member of L/R/H I was watching on that movie? Just curious is all.

Winmag,
Sorry, was busy making brass and doing a load development for another 338 Thor (338/416 imp) we've just built, and didn't check back till now, so missed your post.
That's one of our videos, filmed by me and my 2 boys Jamie and Willie, and edited by Willie. It shows a year in the life of the NZ Hunter crew big game hunting - me, my wife, Jamie and Willie and our mates. That version was produced for the general NZ market, and we specifically didn't include all our longer range stuff on it so it would still appeal to the average hunter. We are at the moment producing a version of it for the USA market with more long range stuff including the technical stuff about each shot, calibers, loads, range, come ups, windage etc. We hope to have it out by Christmas.
Just interested to know where you got the one you saw from, as we haven't sold them in the USA yet. Shawn Carlock has the only one I know of over there, as he's writing a longrange how-to series in our magazine at the moment.
Greg
 
I have used the 7mm in the guise of the 280 remington for years. I actually just got another one, a remington 700 xcr II. I use 160-165s, everything Ive shot has been a flop,bang. I cant say anyone is wrong, I can only comment on my own personal experience. When it was matched to the animal, no problem, thats my experience.
 
I kinda thought that may be you in the movie,..
I dont know if the guy that ordered it wishes to be known on a public forum, but he's honest, and ordered it from a NZ local guy. He did not "pirate" it.
I noticed you used the "7mm fatso" quite a bit while culling, and the other rifle that stood out was, a single shot bolt action bull-pup looking rifle used by the guy without a top on his hat. That was an odd, but neat looking rifle, and performed well at long range. The one that blew me away was using the 243 for the red's. That was some unbeliveably thick brush. So thick looking I dont think I couldve spit thru most of it. But you made the lil 243 work very well. I wouldve opted for a big dumb bullet (like a 458 win:D) for brushy stuff like that but you guys realy snuck that tiny lil bullet right thru that overgrown tangle of brush and trees. Truly impressive! Actually to me those shots looked much more difficult to make than even the longest cross canyon shots- wich obviously required a great deal of skill in thier own right. Not one was a gimmie. Hats off to you, you guys realy do shoot well. I have a question tho, Why not the 7mm fatso on reds instead of the 243?... Or the 243 for the long crsscanyon stuff? Or was the 243 just better suited for that particular task, and the 7mm fatso better suited to its task...? The 7mm fatso would have done the job too Im sure...... Right...?
The 7mm fatso is one flat shooting wind bucking kick *** long range cartrige, perfectly suited to the task on wich you used it. It performed flawlessly for its intended use in your movie. but you didnt use it at short range. Is there a scientific answer? or did you just wanna use the 243 cause it wasnt "set up" like the 7mm fatso, strictly for long range? Im not trying to be rude. But considering the ribbing I got for "lack of science" vs what I have personally whitnessed, or "not letting facts get in the way of a good opinion now boys",..... I dont feel too bad asking the question, in a not rude, but rather curious manner.
Just found that odd, Sorry if my sense of humor is a bit dry, But it seems when you have different experiences you get quite a ribbing from the folks who have had different experiences.......
I said before I respect your experience. I have seen you shoot on video, and I am truly impressed. You walk the walk. You are fortunate to be able to cull alot of animals each year. Im also sure that youve spent alot of time seeing what happens to animals hit with alot of different calibers/cartriges. I am not questioning you or your experience. Im not asking you to use science to back up your experience, and Im not saying you didnt have good success with the 7mm. You like the 7mm, and it works well for you, and thats great. I wish you much more continued success and enjoyment with it. I even look forward to seeing more of your movies. But try goin easy on the punns, even if someone elses experience differs from your experience.

As for everyone else whos opinions and experiences differ from mine,
I never said the 7mm would not work. I just plain and simple have personally had more success and experienced better results with every other caliber/cartrige Ive ever hunted with, and so have alot of people that I know. If there wasnt some form of truth to this 'rumor' then we wouldnt have this thread, and everyone would agree that the 7mm was gods gift to cartriges..... Whatever, If you like yours and its your favorite, and or your go to rifle for everything, Cool, I hope you have much more continued success with it. Heck I hope I have much more continued success with my choice of calibers, and cartriges too. Im not calling anyone stupid or dumb for liking what they like, or having good experiences with thier favorite 7mm. Guess some folks show the same amount of respect back,...sadly not all....
As for "collecting evidence" (Id like to thank str8shooter for posting his dissagreement in a respectfull mannor, and no pot shots. I very much respect that, thank you.) try googling bullet failures, 7mm pros and conns, or 7mm vs 30 cal debates. There are TONS of people who are of the exact same opinion as me, ----but to the same effect there are lots of folks of the same opinion as many of you--- Then, like any other forum, there is that third group who are made up of alot of people who are clueless, but want to be involved cause its a thread that involves thier favorite rifle cause someone else told them it was best. It should be noted that these folks in the third group fall on both sides of all the debates I read.
Stats are funny things, they can be manipulated to "prove" whatever you want. I do not put much stock if any in stats. I do put stock in personal experience, and we have differing experiences. Personal preferance. Ill let it go at that.

OH, and I like synthettic oil for my Hemi, and a synthettic blend for my Jeep. And I still like plain old Dello 15w-40 for the diesel, so I guess I fall into catagory A, B, & C. HAHAHA We may need to start a whole new thread for that one tho... Im takin a break after this ones over. You guys put me thru the ringer. hehehe

Sorry Scott E, for the temporary hi-jack of your thread. Ill go back to lurking in the shadows again.
 
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Wow I thought this was a joke when I first saw it. Going to take out the 300wsm in the am, anything I should look out for :D
 
Wow I thought this was a joke when I first saw it. Going to take out the 300wsm in the am, anything I should look out for :D

Rimfire,
Sounds like NZ Longranger has killed more large game than the rest of us have all combined, a lot of it with 7mms, and he's still catching his balance from the suggestion that .284s are jinxed, or innately inferior.

So I think the thing to look out for is a .284 bored rifle - and grab it when you find it. Might better leave that 300 WSM behind. After all, I had a .308 caliber bullet pencil through a Dall ram this year.
 
I kinda thought that may be you in the movie,..
I dont know if the guy that ordered it wishes to be known on a public forum, but he's honest, and ordered it from a NZ local guy. He did not "pirate" it.
I noticed you used the "7mm fatso" quite a bit while culling, and the other rifle that stood out was, a single shot bolt action bull-pup looking rifle used by the guy without a top on his hat. That was an odd, but neat looking rifle, and performed well at long range. The one that blew me away was using the 243 for the red's. That was some unbeliveably thick brush. So thick looking I dont think I couldve spit thru most of it. But you made the lil 243 work very well. I wouldve opted for a big dumb bullet (like a 458 win:D) for brushy stuff like that but you guys realy snuck that tiny lil bullet right thru that overgrown tangle of brush and trees. Truly impressive! Actually to me those shots looked much more difficult to make than even the longest cross canyon shots- wich obviously required a great deal of skill in thier own right. Not one was a gimmie. Hats off to you, you guys realy do shoot well. I have a question tho, Why not the 7mm fatso on reds instead of the 243?... Or the 243 for the long crsscanyon stuff? Or was the 243 just better suited for that particular task, and the 7mm fatso better suited to its task...? The 7mm fatso would have done the job too Im sure...... Right...?
The 7mm fatso is one flat shooting wind bucking kick *** long range cartrige, perfectly suited to the task on wich you used it. It performed flawlessly for its intended use in your movie. but you didnt use it at short range. Is there a scientific answer? or did you just wanna use the 243 cause it wasnt "set up" like the 7mm fatso, strictly for long range? Im not trying to be rude. But considering the ribbing I got for "lack of science" vs what I have personally whitnessed, or "not letting facts get in the way of a good opinion now boys",..... I dont feel too bad asking the question, in a not rude, but rather curious manner.
Just found that odd, Sorry if my sense of humor is a bit dry, But it seems when you have different experiences you get quite a ribbing from the folks who have had different experiences.......
I said before I respect your experience. I have seen you shoot on video, and I am truly impressed. You walk the walk. You are fortunate to be able to cull alot of animals each year. Im also sure that youve spent alot of time seeing what happens to animals hit with alot of different calibers/cartriges. I am not questioning you or your experience. Im not asking you to use science to back up your experience, and Im not saying you didnt have good success with the 7mm. You like the 7mm, and it works well for you, and thats great. I wish you much more continued success and enjoyment with it. I even look forward to seeing more of your movies. But try goin easy on the punns, even if someone elses experience differs from your experience.



Sorry Scott E, for the temporary hi-jack of your thread. Ill go back to lurking in the shadows again.

Winmag,
Thanks for your comments, it is interesting to hear what others think after watching what we get up to in one years hunting. The movie is 3.5 hours long and we had to cut a lot out to fit it into that length!
We use 6 different calibers on that DVD, a .243, a 25/284, a 7mm Mag, a 7mm Fatso, a 7mm Super Fatso, a 338 Lapua, and the 338 Lunatic bullpup you talked about. You could say there was a hell of a variation in size and power between the biggest and the smallest, and barring maybe those with the 338 Lunatic which has the most margin for error, the effectiveness of every other shot taken with all the rifles was down to one thing - bullet placement. We had already selected the right bullets for the situation, removing that variable. So any variability in how quick all those animals succumbed was down to shot placement. You'll see the odd one travels maybe from 10 to 50 yards, and that was always due to being hit too far back, no matter what the caliber. Always the boys mates shooting of course, never us. :D
We certainly use the 7mm's up close in the thick bush, and with the right bullet they excel at this. The Red stag Willie shoots charging up to his roar was shot at close range with a 7mm Mag shooting a 160gn AB, and they don't die any quicker than that! The reason we were using the .243 a bit on the close stuff in the bush was because of noise - I'm talking about on the cameraman's ears. The stags have a habit of coming up to our roars from the cameraman's side, murphy's law I s'pose. And its a bit hard trying to stick your fingers in your ears when your manning the camera! So the .243 is easier on my ears than the 7mm's and bigger. Using something like the Barnes TTSX's, they'll drop some pretty big critters in their tracks. The stags you see shot with the .243 were Sika stags, a little smaller than the Red stags, more like the size of your Mulies.
This year we've set up a 7mm/08 for this purpose - up close filming in the bush. We cut the barrel back to 18", and stuck a short suppressor on it. The OAL is no longer than the original 22" barrel. It shoots the 120gn TTSX at 3000fps, and flattens anything you hit in the right spot, with more margin for error than the .243 and no pain in the ears!
A .308 set up the same way with the 110 or 130 TTSX would be just as good if not better, loosing less velocity out of a short barrel. But the 7mm/08 Tikka T3 Lite came along at the right time and price so 7mm/08 it was!
Anyway, as you can see from that one year snapshot of our hunting experiences, if you hit them in the right place with the right bullet for the job - end of story. :)
Greg
Ps That's my son Jamie wearing the hat with no top - he's always the clown! He finished his double degree in maths and physics with honours at Canterbury University last year, and is now nearly finished his Masters in mathematical physics, so you can see appearances can be deceptive! The 338 Lunatic bullpup he built was inspired by Kirby's 338 AM, and its basically a tight neck 50 degree shoulder version of that. In that 12 pound bullpup it fair lets you know its gone off, which is where the name came from - you've got to be a Lunatic to fire it!!!
 
I've got to say I quit reading this at the 6th page, because the idea of a 7mm being "intrinsically" less capable of properly killing game is ridiculous. Its pretty funny really... There are bullets in every caliber of different shapes, SD, core constructions, and they all perform differently. To add to the variables you have animals which react differently to a bullet ripping through them.

In my mind this is a topic created by a few morons that had bad experiences with a few shots and started propagating a rumor with absolutely no science to back it up.
 
I've got to say I quit reading this at the 6th page, because the idea of a 7mm being "intrinsically" less capable of properly killing game is ridiculous. Its pretty funny really... There are bullets in every caliber of different shapes, SD, core constructions, and they all perform differently. To add to the variables you have animals which react differently to a bullet ripping through them.

In my mind this is a topic created by a few morons that had bad experiences with a few shots and started propagating a rumor with absolutely no science to back it up.

Wow, never been called a moron before, especially for just asking a question and inquiring about other people's opinions. Thanks for sharing such valuable info to this thread. Your added science was definitely helpful to this conversation.:)
 
Wow, never been called a moron before, especially for just asking a question and inquiring about other people's opinions. Thanks for sharing such valuable info to this thread. Your added science was definitely helpful to this conversation.:)

LOL! Now that was funny. Please keep posting Scot E. I like this thread and seeing the differing opinions.

From one Moron to another :),
Tank
 
I didn't mean the topic starter on this board, but it sounded that way. I meant the guys who have created this rumor... So not calling you a moron Scot E
 
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