Hello.....I am new to this site and I'm sure you all have had this type of discussion several times but here it goes.....I currently have a 30-06 Savage with a nice scope and have taken deer with it ( 2 in Maine and 1 in S.C.)...it was a gift that I truly enjoy ..... I will be returning to Maine "Full Time" soon (currently in Florida) and I am looking forward to hunting in Northern Maine (possibly even in Canada ) for a BIG Black Bear and hopefully a Moose .... I will be looking for a rifle just for that ...I've been looking for info on 45-70 Gov. vs .338 H&H Mag. vs 300 Win. Mag. and a few others .... I helped a friend recover a Moose in the deep Maine woods ... let me tell you it was a lot of work ... the moose did NOT drop quickly....I know shot placement has a great deal to do with this ...but I want to make a Simple, Clean & Quick Single Shot with minimal ''tracking''
45-70 Gov. VS .338 MAG VS .300 Mag.
- Thread starter bigrick37
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
idaho elk hunter
Well-Known Member
The name of this site is LONG range hunting...So dur to that the 338 caliber with its attributes is definitely the way to go. Once that is said if you reload the 45-70 its one deadly SOB. With a 400 gr Barnes original and h4195 loaded on a freebored barrel it can match if not surpass the 458 win mag. If you rebarrel with a Lothar Walther barrel which is made from a harder steel you can even go to the 458 Lott power. I know there are sever doubters on here so if you call 2 gunsmiths that come to mind they can help with a built 45-70 to compare to the 300 win. Jim Brockman in Gooding Idaho and M.L. Phearson. Google them and they can give you a true comparison and educate you on the power of a 45-70.
As was pointed out, the site is called longrangehunting.com so the 45-70 probably doesn't fit into that paradigm.
I have a few questions for you that might help the folks around here be more helpful to you:
I hope you aren't getting rid of your trusty 30-06 to purchase this magnum! While she is an old caliber, there is a ton of ammunition to choose that is suitable for moose. From what I have witnessed, a well placed shot from a 270 Win is better than a poorly placed shot from a 338. That being said I would rather have a well placed shot from a 338
Your experience with a long track on a moose isn't that uncommon. You can't always fix that with a bigger rifle, though a larger diameter hole definitely helps. You are talking about one of the largest big game animals in North America here; they aren't that easy to kill quickly. If you recall field dressing your buddy's, their hearts are the size of our heads. Their lungs are enormous and take a very long time to bleed out even if large portions are destroyed.
My advice? Whatever rifle you use, make sure you are good with it. Shoot them in the spine if you are close/confident enough. The spine is 4"-5" wide on moose I've cut apart so it's not impossible by any means. An experienced hunter and game warden I know advises people to drill them right in the shoulder at spine height. There is a lot of meat that will survive just fine and it will nearly guarantee immobilizing them. Lastly, if you hit them and it's not the "bang-flop" we all dream and hope for, don't pressure the animal. If they weren't alert when you shot them, they will often take a few steps, feel poorly and lay down. If you just give them their space and relax they will stay right there in most cases. If you get all excited and head over towards it often times you will give the animal the adrenaline surge needed to get back up and run.
Sorry if I sound preachy I'm just dolling out what little I know. Others will chime in I'm sure!
Happy Shooting & Happy Hunting gun)
I have a few questions for you that might help the folks around here be more helpful to you:
- Do you want to hunt moose at long range or at typical hunting distances?
- Do you hand load?
- 338 H&H Mag? Do you mean 338 Win Mag?
- Will a hard-recoiling, expensive-to-feed magnum limit your practice time?
I hope you aren't getting rid of your trusty 30-06 to purchase this magnum! While she is an old caliber, there is a ton of ammunition to choose that is suitable for moose. From what I have witnessed, a well placed shot from a 270 Win is better than a poorly placed shot from a 338. That being said I would rather have a well placed shot from a 338
Your experience with a long track on a moose isn't that uncommon. You can't always fix that with a bigger rifle, though a larger diameter hole definitely helps. You are talking about one of the largest big game animals in North America here; they aren't that easy to kill quickly. If you recall field dressing your buddy's, their hearts are the size of our heads. Their lungs are enormous and take a very long time to bleed out even if large portions are destroyed.
My advice? Whatever rifle you use, make sure you are good with it. Shoot them in the spine if you are close/confident enough. The spine is 4"-5" wide on moose I've cut apart so it's not impossible by any means. An experienced hunter and game warden I know advises people to drill them right in the shoulder at spine height. There is a lot of meat that will survive just fine and it will nearly guarantee immobilizing them. Lastly, if you hit them and it's not the "bang-flop" we all dream and hope for, don't pressure the animal. If they weren't alert when you shot them, they will often take a few steps, feel poorly and lay down. If you just give them their space and relax they will stay right there in most cases. If you get all excited and head over towards it often times you will give the animal the adrenaline surge needed to get back up and run.
Sorry if I sound preachy I'm just dolling out what little I know. Others will chime in I'm sure!
Happy Shooting & Happy Hunting gun)
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I've had a 45-70 and in close with the right bullets it still works. Not a slight to it but when it's compared to the others for up close and personal work it's usually with bullets that don't give a good representation of their close range effectiveness. Example, in .30-06 and magnum .30's the Nosler 220 grain Partition will get the attention of big bear or moose when placed well. The .338's using 275 grain Swift A-frames or 300 grain Woodleighs also deliver close range performance. I don't know if .338 H&H was a typo or if you're including the .375 in your question but again there are some very good bullets for your purpose there. The more modern cartridges will deliver at longer ranges more easily the .45-70.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Got any left? A good bullet in it's time, I have a few in other calibers. Just curious if you've a few put away for a special day.
Dskiper
Well-Known Member
hello, just a suggestion. rebarrel to .338-06. I didon a rem.700 in .280.I wanted something different.Shilen .338-06 barrel from Midway(24")St.St. Gunsmith bedded it.It shoots 1/2''groups with factory ammo.If you reload your choices are great since .338 bullets are in large varity.I think recoil is less than 30-06 and much less than the magnum. I'm taken it to Maine this season!
Interesting! lightbulb
Clint Idaho
Well-Known Member
First comment I am going to make will get me in trouble with the 300 win mag crowd. Any thing the 300 win mag can do, the 338 win mag will do better. This is because of the bullet weight choices avalible. I have killed every thing from deer to elk with both. Given the choice 338 wins every time. What you really need to ask yourself is. What are my expectations for range. If most of your hunting is heavy timber or brush. Shorter ranges ( 300 yards or under) don't over scope the gun. A 1.5x5 in a Leopold or other good optic will do a much better job than scopes that only go down to 3 or 4 power.
All that nonsence out out of the way. The 45-70 in a modern rifle is no handicap for shooting the biggest game with the right bullet and velocity choice. You have to really pay attention to the avalible factory ammo out there. Not all are created equal. Horandy makes a great bullet in the 325 gr. But they have a feed problem in the lever actions. Buffalo Bore makes some great heavy 405 grain or heavier loads in the +P range for the 45-70.
No matter what firearm you use. Shot placement along with the right combination of energy and bullet construction will anchor them in place.
All that nonsence out out of the way. The 45-70 in a modern rifle is no handicap for shooting the biggest game with the right bullet and velocity choice. You have to really pay attention to the avalible factory ammo out there. Not all are created equal. Horandy makes a great bullet in the 325 gr. But they have a feed problem in the lever actions. Buffalo Bore makes some great heavy 405 grain or heavier loads in the +P range for the 45-70.
No matter what firearm you use. Shot placement along with the right combination of energy and bullet construction will anchor them in place.
Westcoaster
Member
First off I'm assuming you meant 338win mag rather than H&H.
Your 3006 is everything you need for hunting moose and bear. Use a premium bullet in 165 to 180 grain and then go forth and kill an ark full of critters. As others have mentioned being able to place your shot is more important than the cartridge.
Now if you "want" another rifle I understand and am here to enable you. A 338wm is a wonderful choice for moose and bear. I have shot 338wm for years and love it. It is devastating up close and is effective out to 500 yards with practice.
It is truly the 3006's bigger brother. Similar velocities and trajectories when comparing 180's on the 3006 to 250's in the 338. The lower velocities of the 3006 and the 338 mean less shot meat.
I have a 4570 in an older minty Marlin. The rifle is surprisingly accurate and the kick is mild, however with it's rainbow arc trajectory I view it as a sub 200 yard cartridge.
I do not currently own a fast 30 because of the kick and the meat damage.
Your 3006 is everything you need for hunting moose and bear. Use a premium bullet in 165 to 180 grain and then go forth and kill an ark full of critters.
As others have mentioned being able to place your shot is more important than the cartridge.Now if you "want" another rifle I understand and am here to enable you. A 338wm is a wonderful choice for moose and bear. I have shot 338wm for years and love it. It is devastating up close and is effective out to 500 yards with practice.
It is truly the 3006's bigger brother. Similar velocities and trajectories when comparing 180's on the 3006 to 250's in the 338. The lower velocities of the 3006 and the 338 mean less shot meat.
I have a 4570 in an older minty Marlin. The rifle is surprisingly accurate and the kick is mild, however with it's rainbow arc trajectory I view it as a sub 200 yard cartridge.
I do not currently own a fast 30 because of the kick and the meat damage.
204tcAK
Active Member
The 30/06 is plenty of cal for moose with the right bullet, shot placement within your shooting capabilities. If I was selecting between the 300 vs the 338. Hands down would be the 338. With the 300 mag your just pushing the 30/06 bullet a little faster. With the 338, you push heavier bullets a little faster than the '06 giving you more energy and "knockdown" power.
I own a marlin 1895 45/70, it's a good brush gun period. I wouldn't shoot it out past 150 yards.
I own a marlin 1895 45/70, it's a good brush gun period. I wouldn't shoot it out past 150 yards.
MNhunter86
Well-Known Member
Shoot the gun that you are confident in. If I had a choice between a brand new bad *** .338 with the most expensive ammo that I had only shot a couple of times vs. my 30/06 that I had been hunting with for the last 10 years I would take that hands down every time because I know it like the back of my hand I've put hundreds of rounds thru it I'm confident in it and I know it has never let me down/never will. Just my .02.
204tcAK
Active Member
I've owned an '06 and reloaded for it. But it was a long time ago. The heaviest bullet I pushed through it was a 200 gr spt. Granted, pushing a heavy slug in the '06 didn't reach out and topple game far off in the distance but I'm sure it could have. I understand why there are magnums, ultra mags, belted mags and so forth. And this web states "long range hunting". Whatever round you choose, it should be tailored to what game and distance situations you will be hunting in. If the game where you hunt is within 100 to 150 yds, the 45/70 will suit your needs. Also, the '06 you already have can do just as good. If you think you will be hunting moose farther out, then that's where the need for a magnum, ultra magnum, or a belted mag would come into play. With the mag's, you take a projectile and sling it farther and faster down range. Flatter shooting and more energy, with the correct bullet configuration you can topple any moose. Every hunter wishes for that "bang, flop" results with the moose. I've been hunting them every year since the time I started with my father when I was young. They always take a few steps either way before they flop even with a well placed shot.
