Necessary precision to kill something

Alex Wheeler said:
Not sure what the point is? Your not going to be able to predict a shot if the gun doesnt shoot small groups. A 1.5 moa rifle at 700yds is about 11". So in a zero wind condition, with a perfect shot you can only be sure your shot will be within 5.5" or your aim point. A half minute gun will put the shot within 1.8" of the aim point. I have lost count of how many 1000s of rounds I have fired at 1k, and a moa rifle is about useless out there. We all know we cant read all the wind and other conditions at long range and we cant break perfect shots every time. Not sure why we are trying to convince people you dont need all the accuracy you can get. My personal experience totally disagrees with this. I can see a big difference in hits and misses with even a 1/4 moa vs a 3/4 moa rifle.
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His point was a 3 shot 1/4 MOA group is not reflective of the population, and that if you shot a 30 shot group, you will no longer have a 1/4 MOA group - probably 1 MOA, with the 1 MOA being defined by perhaps 95% of your shots within 1/2 MOA, but the other 1 or 2 opening it up to 1 MOA. I don't think he is necessarily disagreeing with you unless you are saying you can put 100% of your bullets from a 1/4 or 1/2 MOA rifle within those group sizes.

I do agree with you about accuracy; I used to shoot less than my best rifles when the wind was blowing hard, thinking the wind was going to affect me a lot more than poor precision and that I would still get good wind practice. Wrong - it caused me to wonder if a miss or near miss was a bad wind call or just an inaccurate rifle.
 
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TheSouthpaw said:
100%.

People should go shoot in actual mountains at distance on vital-sized targets and realize chasing small groups and shooting a flat range or on a bench is not your best use of practice time. Most folks cannot call wind within 4 mph at their position, let alone at the target and in between. Especially in mountainous terrain.

Wind, updrafts, downdrafts, shooting position, brush/obstacles, slopes, rifle zero, heart rate, etc are legitimate hunting variables that nobody accounts for in stale shooting practice.

Then add a timer to up the pressure and folks really fall apart.
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So true.Angle finders, range finders and levels are now almost as important in the mountains as your ammunition. Chase a goat for true learning curve .
 
3800fps said:
So which animals need less precision and which animals need more precision?…
Statistics given in the podcast reveal that inherent precision of the rifle system is less a factor than the shooter and his ability to assess the conditions and correct for them…
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Big animals need less
Small animals need more
simple
 
LRNut said:
His point was a 3 shot 1/4 MOA group is not reflective of the population, and that if you shot a 30 shot group, you will no longer have a 1/4 MOA group - probably 1 MOA, with the 1 MOA being defined by perhaps 95% of your shots within 1/2 MOA, but the other 1 or 2 opening it up to 1 MOA. I don't think he is necessarily disagreeing with you unless you are saying you can put 100% of your bullets from a 1/4 or 1/2 MOA rifle within those group sizes.

I do agree with you about accuracy; I used to shoot less than my best rifles when the wind was blowing hard, thinking the wind was going to affect me a lot more than poor precision and that I would still get good wind practice. Wrong - it caused me to wonder if a miss or near miss was a bad wind call or just an inaccurate rifle.
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I think what is missed here is your not shooting 30 rounds at an animal
You are shooting 1 maybe 2. If you miss your first 2 shots in good weather conditions. Your just throwing prayers now
Too many variables in a 30 shot string that wouldnt be a factor in a hunting situation

I get the idea of statistical significance data
But there are too many variables trying to that data to a point of significance
 
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Huntnful said:


This is a good listen. Just crunching numbers on how much group size changes hit probability.



Spoiler: out to 700 yards

Going from .5 to 1 MOA is a 1% decrease
Going from .5 to 1.5 MOA is a 5% decrease

Adding a 2 MPH wind variance is a 30% decrease.
Click to expand...

Seems like having equipment to factor incline (unless you have a great geometry brain) and reading wind trump having a .5 MOA rifle. I agree with getting all the help you can from an accurate rifle within your means. BUT, if you can practice reading wind and thermal drafts it's the real equalizer. Even if you live in the mountains that's tough though. Not usually gonna get a great read from vegetation in a lot of places. Gotta know when to say when.
 
Marky_mark said:
I think what is missed here is your not shooting 30 rounds at an animal
You are shooting 1 maybe 2. If you miss your first 2 shots in good weather conditions. Your just throwing prayers now
Too many variables in a 30 shot string that wouldnt be a factor in a hunting situation

I get the idea of statistical significance data
But there are too many variables trying to that data to a point of significance
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No you're not shooting 30 rounds at an animal. But the data point of group size comes from a 30 round group shot in FIELD CONDITIONS.

So imagine taking ten 3 shot groups, from ten different field positions. You're not going to have your 5 pound bunny ear rest bag either like on the bench. All prone. But maybe one on some rocks, one on a left slant hill, one on a right slant hill. One slightly uphill, one slightly downhill. And 5 other slightly imperfect positions. That group would be the true field capability of you and your rifle. And I guarantee to you, nobody is shooting 1/2 MOA under all circumstances, compiled together. That is the true cone of you and your rifle. And then you know the absolute worse you can shoot under all circumstances and base a hit rate off that.
 
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