bcraft1111
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- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 48
You Gotta See This
- Thread starter bcraft1111
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Glock119
Well-Known Member
I would think that this is similar to allowing the barrel to rest in stock, which is to take out or change the harmonics of the barrel. Were they using the product?
Thanks,
Ben
Thanks,
Ben
G
Guest
Guest
Having just returned from the Harrisburg Sportsman show.. I saw a guy selling this bi-pod like shooting sticks type thing... the gimmick was that it was manufactured in such a way that the V portion would grasp the barrel with a clamp like system and hold on... until you forcable removed it from the barrel...
Me being the antagonist I am at times... I asked the guy in the middle of his demonstration if that affects barrel harmonics... he said not it makes the rifle more accurate... I asked him to explain "how so" and also why doesn't it affect barrel harmonics if it is in direct contact with the barrel.... his reply was.. that isn't part of my demonstration...
anything to make a buck off the ignorant or unsuspecting consumer....
Me being the antagonist I am at times... I asked the guy in the middle of his demonstration if that affects barrel harmonics... he said not it makes the rifle more accurate... I asked him to explain "how so" and also why doesn't it affect barrel harmonics if it is in direct contact with the barrel.... his reply was.. that isn't part of my demonstration...
anything to make a buck off the ignorant or unsuspecting consumer....
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Bcraft1111,
Again the industry is trying to put a bandaid on the real source of the problem.
Yes, this may well allow the barrel vibration patterns to be tuned a bit but if the rifle makers would start building rifles with quality machining there would be no reason for such gimmicks.
Inconsistant barrel vibtation is nearly 100% caused by poor or loose barrel thread fit to the receiver.
In one of our custom rifles which are threaded with an extremely quality class 3 thread fit, the barrel still vibrates as the bullet travels down the bore but it is consistant from shot to shot.
This is the reason that most full custom rifles or rebarreled rifles that have the receiver accurized will generally shoot most bullet weights to very nearly the same point of impact at 100 to 200 yards even with the velocity change.
I once tested this in one of my 257 Allen Mag test rifles while doing velocity testing. I had 8 different loads using the same bullet, at 100 yards I shot four shots into one group and the other four into a second group.
The velocity spread of the first four shots was 185 fps and the group measured under 0.3". The second four had a velocity variation of 205 fps and this group measured just over 0.5" ctc.
Combining the entire 8 shot group, the first four shots would have landed inside the second groups outer edge so with a velocity variation of nearly 400 fps, the group size was barely over 0.5" at 100 yards CTC.
Try this test with a factory rifle and see what the results are.
Point is they want you to spend money to solve a problem that can not be solved with "add-ons". Quality machining is critical to fine consistancy and unfortunately the big rifle makers have chosen to skimp on this area in favor of mass production rifles.
IT is sad really, well, as a custom rifle builder, its good for me and my customers!!!
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Again the industry is trying to put a bandaid on the real source of the problem.
Yes, this may well allow the barrel vibration patterns to be tuned a bit but if the rifle makers would start building rifles with quality machining there would be no reason for such gimmicks.
Inconsistant barrel vibtation is nearly 100% caused by poor or loose barrel thread fit to the receiver.
In one of our custom rifles which are threaded with an extremely quality class 3 thread fit, the barrel still vibrates as the bullet travels down the bore but it is consistant from shot to shot.
This is the reason that most full custom rifles or rebarreled rifles that have the receiver accurized will generally shoot most bullet weights to very nearly the same point of impact at 100 to 200 yards even with the velocity change.
I once tested this in one of my 257 Allen Mag test rifles while doing velocity testing. I had 8 different loads using the same bullet, at 100 yards I shot four shots into one group and the other four into a second group.
The velocity spread of the first four shots was 185 fps and the group measured under 0.3". The second four had a velocity variation of 205 fps and this group measured just over 0.5" ctc.
Combining the entire 8 shot group, the first four shots would have landed inside the second groups outer edge so with a velocity variation of nearly 400 fps, the group size was barely over 0.5" at 100 yards CTC.
Try this test with a factory rifle and see what the results are.
Point is they want you to spend money to solve a problem that can not be solved with "add-ons". Quality machining is critical to fine consistancy and unfortunately the big rifle makers have chosen to skimp on this area in favor of mass production rifles.
IT is sad really, well, as a custom rifle builder, its good for me and my customers!!!
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
bcraft1111
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 48
Guys, Please do not think that I posted this to say that I thought it would work. If it works fore someone Great.
But you won't catch one on my Barrel. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
But it will be fun to walk into camp and see them on rifles of your buddy. It should give us all something to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif about. And I bet every one of us will see this.
But you won't catch one on my Barrel. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
But it will be fun to walk into camp and see them on rifles of your buddy. It should give us all something to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif about. And I bet every one of us will see this.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Well it's cheap enough to try. Or wait & see.
I was brousing through US Patents just the other day and seen the claims for this and reference claims going many years back. I didn't save any links though.
It isn't a tuner. It doesn't tune or effect tune. It's suppose to reduce the ever reflecting accoustic wave discussed lately with OBT theory(optimum barrel time- snipershide). The claim relates to a specially tuned type of rubber(NOVACAM), which is similar in my view to sorbothane(also tuned). Sorbothane converts some mechanical energy to heat. So ya just never know. I have a rebarreled A-bolt in 6br with a lighter, sendero type contour. It shoots pretty good, so maybe I'll try it with this and see if things improove further. Call me gullable, but I love toys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I was brousing through US Patents just the other day and seen the claims for this and reference claims going many years back. I didn't save any links though.
It isn't a tuner. It doesn't tune or effect tune. It's suppose to reduce the ever reflecting accoustic wave discussed lately with OBT theory(optimum barrel time- snipershide). The claim relates to a specially tuned type of rubber(NOVACAM), which is similar in my view to sorbothane(also tuned). Sorbothane converts some mechanical energy to heat. So ya just never know. I have a rebarreled A-bolt in 6br with a lighter, sendero type contour. It shoots pretty good, so maybe I'll try it with this and see if things improove further. Call me gullable, but I love toys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Glock119
Well-Known Member
There we go. We have a ginnie pig. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif you try it, then you can report back and let us know what ya think. I am a fan of "those with most toy wins" also, but this is a stretch, anyway you have fun but let us know how it works for ya.
Ben
Ben
Now I'm wondering why do some of the rimfire match shooters have a barrel tuner on the end of their custom made guns? They most likely don't have poor quality built guns, at least not all of them that use the tuner. It's clear that the tuner they use is far more superior than the slide on rubber version. I have a 40X rimfire that Shillen did for me years ago and they did the same thing by cutting a little bit of barrel length off at a time to change the harmonics. If the day ever comes that I have nothing better to do I may try one out on my semi auto 22mag. Never know might help..??
erikljoh
Member
I'm sure this is the answer to any poor shooting rifle. If anyone cant get thier rifle to group even after trying one of these, I'll take them off your hands for the going rate of scrap metal /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Kind of like when I tried gluing a nickel to my bow cam, you know, to get that extra momentum for maximum speed...
I can almost guarantee my brother in law will have one of these on his rifle this year at camp. Wait till I get ahold of him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif God bless the guys who get all their info from articles they read or the internet, and are instant experts in ballistics.
Erik
Kind of like when I tried gluing a nickel to my bow cam, you know, to get that extra momentum for maximum speed...
I can almost guarantee my brother in law will have one of these on his rifle this year at camp. Wait till I get ahold of him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif God bless the guys who get all their info from articles they read or the internet, and are instant experts in ballistics.
Erik
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Fourinone,
Barrel tuners are designed to fine tune the barrel harmonics to get the barrel to perform as consistantly as possible. In a properly built rifle, the barrel still vibrates but the vibration between the barrel and receiver are greatly controled compared to a factory rifle with poor fitting.
Those using barrel tuners on match grade rifles are trying to tune the barrel harmonics for the BR match winning group.
You could take any of these rifles and shoot very small groups because the rifles are built properly. BUT, to win a BR match you need the best and this means tuning barrel harmonics as well.
Say a match rifle will cut .250" groups all day long at the competition range they are used at. This is great accuracy but it will not win most BR matches.
They are just taking it to the next level in controlling barrel vibration, this will further cut group size down but it is not a result of controling reveiver/barrel vibration, it is simply getting that muzzle to be in the exact same location when the bullet leaves the bore shot after shot.
For 95% of the shooting done by shooters in this site including myself, barrel tuners really will not show much improvement over a top quality built bolt action rifle.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Barrel tuners are designed to fine tune the barrel harmonics to get the barrel to perform as consistantly as possible. In a properly built rifle, the barrel still vibrates but the vibration between the barrel and receiver are greatly controled compared to a factory rifle with poor fitting.
Those using barrel tuners on match grade rifles are trying to tune the barrel harmonics for the BR match winning group.
You could take any of these rifles and shoot very small groups because the rifles are built properly. BUT, to win a BR match you need the best and this means tuning barrel harmonics as well.
Say a match rifle will cut .250" groups all day long at the competition range they are used at. This is great accuracy but it will not win most BR matches.
They are just taking it to the next level in controlling barrel vibration, this will further cut group size down but it is not a result of controling reveiver/barrel vibration, it is simply getting that muzzle to be in the exact same location when the bullet leaves the bore shot after shot.
For 95% of the shooting done by shooters in this site including myself, barrel tuners really will not show much improvement over a top quality built bolt action rifle.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
The device shown here isn't a tuner. Whether it works or not has little to do with state of tune. Tune is timing, this device dampens.
So I rather doubt it would HURT anything.
So I rather doubt it would HURT anything.
jb1000br
Official LRH Sponsor
Ric--I wish you would have pointed me in that guy's direction...I could have had some fun
JB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
JB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Mikecr,
I guess it depends on your definition of "tuning" from the sight that Bcraft1111 posted, it showed the product being tested at different locations on the barrel with one specific location performing much more dramatically then the others.
This is exactly the same theory behind the BOSS system just that the location of the product and the amount of location variation are much different.
If this was strictly a dampening product, would it not work the same no matter where it was placed on the barrel.
In my opinion, anytime you use a product like this, range test it, adjust position, test again, adjust, test, adjust test until you come up with the highest level of performance you can get, I call this tuning but thats mu personal opinion and not a techical definition by any means.
A vibration dampener, such as the ones used on archery equipment work as long as they are on the bow. Appearently they are advertising that this product for use on rifles is to be used in a manor where you can test the location of the product in relation to the barrel length and see where the best performance occurs.
Again, it is just my opinion, but I call this tuning.
Just like adjusting bullet seating depth to effect accuracy and velocity extreme spread, this is tuning in my opinion.
Again, I am not giving a technical discription, just my opinion.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
I guess it depends on your definition of "tuning" from the sight that Bcraft1111 posted, it showed the product being tested at different locations on the barrel with one specific location performing much more dramatically then the others.
This is exactly the same theory behind the BOSS system just that the location of the product and the amount of location variation are much different.
If this was strictly a dampening product, would it not work the same no matter where it was placed on the barrel.
In my opinion, anytime you use a product like this, range test it, adjust position, test again, adjust, test, adjust test until you come up with the highest level of performance you can get, I call this tuning but thats mu personal opinion and not a techical definition by any means.
A vibration dampener, such as the ones used on archery equipment work as long as they are on the bow. Appearently they are advertising that this product for use on rifles is to be used in a manor where you can test the location of the product in relation to the barrel length and see where the best performance occurs.
Again, it is just my opinion, but I call this tuning.
Just like adjusting bullet seating depth to effect accuracy and velocity extreme spread, this is tuning in my opinion.
Again, I am not giving a technical discription, just my opinion.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
