Why gun co’s making 224 cal valkyrie in short barrels ?

[NDAR15MAN]

Can some one tell me why Gun Companies are making the 224 Valkyrie in short barrels ? If they are going to hype the crap out of these guns that they say will shoot the 1300 yards they better understand that it takes barrel longer then 18 Or 20 inches the way i see it with factory ammo. Now savage has come out with a bolt gun with a 22 inch barrel.
I mean the whole idea is to reach out there. All of the gun mfg cannot be that cheap to ad 2 to some times 6 inches to this caliber of gun barrels. What am my missing. I was going to buy the savage bolt gun but not now. Does not do a thing for me. Marty

 

[Gcan]

Can some one tell me why Gun Companies are making the 224 Valkyrie in short barrels ? If they are going to hype the crap out of these guns that they say will shoot the 1300 yards they better understand that it takes barrel longer then 18 Or 20 inches the way i see it with factory ammo. Now savage has come out with a bolt gun with a 22 inch barrel.
I mean the whole idea is to reach out there. All of the gun mfg cannot be that cheap to ad 2 to some times 6 inches to this caliber of gun barrels. What am my missing. I was going to buy the savage bolt gun but not now. Does not do a thing for me. Marty

Makes no sense to run 224 in short barrels unless you are building a coyote gun to shoot 75-80 grain HPs and not thinking 1000-1300. 24" or plus seems to be the magic numbers for that. I suppose its all about twist/powder/bullet to length and intended use. The round can be hard enough to make shoot well from a long barrel.

 

[Gryphon]

All the published stats are based on a 90 grain bullet and 24" test barrel to stay supersonic to 1300 yards. This cartridge is great for target and tactical shooting but honestly its some where between a 223 and 243 energy so it really has limited hunting application as its overkill on small varmints (and a barrel burner) and while it should kill Whitetail Deer, the 243 is still considered by many the minimum for deer.

 

[CaptnC]

The 6.5 Grendel crowd is doing the same thing. I go at with them on a weekly basis.

They feel a,12.5" barrel is all you need. Then they complain if they have poor bullet performance at 300yds!?!

I have 2 Grendel's the first with an 18" barrel, then I seen what I had and immediately built a second with a 20" barrel.

I just don't get handy capping a cartridge with a short barrel.

Oh...then they hang a pistol brace on the back of it so they can shoot out to 1000yds! Very few take the time to do it right as a SBR....

 

[Mikecr]

It's a tacticool influence....

 

[jasonco]

I thought about another AR, in 224 Valk, but I'm still not 100% sure of it yet?! So I put together another AR, 223 Wylde, accurized it to it fullest potential with a 24" Bull, shooting 75gr HPBT 2855 fps. I'l wait for more results to come in on the 224 Valkyrie....

 

[Gryphon]

It's a tacticool influence....

EXACTLY!!!

For what its worth my AR15 build is a 22", trying to save a little weight but still have an accurate barrel. Mine is for competitive shooting out to 600 yards, not hunting or "TactiKool" stuff and I will only be running 90s.

 

[davsco]

I just don't get handy capping a cartridge with a short barrel.

yeah i don't get that. i got a 24" barrel for my .224 valk, to shoot in prs gas gun matches generally out to 800yds max.

 

[RT2506]

It has been the same thing for a long time. I remember when Remington came out with the 6.5 Remington mag and the 350 Remington mag and then they put them in rifles with 18" barrels.
A buddy had a 6.5 and I believe that you could lay a hot dog weaner on the shooting table in front of it and cook it with the muzzle blast.

 

[CaptnC]

A buddy had a 6.5 and I believe that you could lay a hot dog weaner on the shooting table in front of it and cook it with the muzzle blast.

The guts on the 6.5 Grendel site have told me all the powder is burnt in the first 3" of the barrel!

I've ask for links to that info and it never gets posted.

I constantly call their 12.5 Grendel's flame throwers! LOL

 

[ar10ar15man]

its about SALES to those who read(part) of the hype, and have to "have one".
there is a 224 valkery site go talk to them.
not one ammo maker has SHOWN accuracy at 1000, only claims
and yes you need a long bbl to do it, but owning one trumps actually hitting something
at 1000.

 

[Gcan]

The guts on the 6.5 Grendel site have told me all the powder is burnt in the first 3" of the barrel!

I've ask for links to that info and it never gets posted.

I constantly call their 12.5 Grendel's flame throwers! LOL

They won't give you the link Cap because its Not true. There is no possible way the powder burns in 3" and still makes a 6.5mm bullet into a 1000 yard machine. If that were true the 357 mag would be pushing bullets at 2200fps from 6" barrels.

It is possible to get a 3-6" barrel to spit out a 6.5 but good luck hitting **** at 500 yards. It would be a handgun. Period! Powder burning up before the bullet leaves the muzzle is largely where shot deviation comes from. Large % of unburnt powder leaving the muzzle is also where deviation comes from. As soon as the powder is burned thrust stops. If the powder was burned in 3" or even 6" there would be no gas to expand and push the bullet a further 6". The bullet would be dependent entirely on inertia to travel down the lands. Thats like telling you if they get a rocket going really fast for 10 miles and shut off the fuel it will continue to accelerate another 50 miles into space. As soon as 100% of the powder is burnt or the bullet leaves the muzzle the bullet begins to slow down. This is why bullets begin to decelerate at the muzzle.


The trick is to get the bullet to max velocity without creating tooo much pressure and to leave the muzzle just ahead of the last of the powder. (Theoretical 99.99% burn) This burn rate determines Barrel length. We shoot longer barrels so we can use slower powders to accelerate the bullet over a longer period of time thus reducing initial pressure in the case. As in life where you want to die just as you spend your last dollar, you want the bullet to exit the barrel just ahead of a flash of the last of the powder. This is the great balance of the 300 blackout. They can get a 220 grain hi bc bullet to 1050fps in 8.5" using pistol powder. 12" is a waste.

I suspect you can get a grendel to perform at 18". Maybe 16". You can probably get one to shoot well out to 400-500 yards from a 14" barrel. But I always thought the point was to get the max out of every cartridge.

Sorry for the rant. Maybe we should make these ppl take an IQ test before we let them buy guns CaptnC.

 

[RT2506]

I don't know who has been telling you that the 6.5 Grendel will burn all it's power in 3" but if they believe that I have some beach front property in the mountains of TN that I will sale them cheap.
I am on the Grendel site quite regularly and have not heard this statement.
I have two rifles in 6.5 Grendel one with an 18" and the other with 20" barrel and with the same load I average 50 fps more with the 20" over the 18". People shooting the same load in 24" barrels get between 75 and 100 fps more with my same load. Also there is the point of getting a bullet out to a certain yardage and hitting paper and getting a bullet to expand in game is a whole different ball of wax. Those 12" or so barrels may work out to a couple hundred yards or so but not much further and the bullet still have enough velocity to expand and that is with specific thin jacketed bullets like the Hornady 123 ELDM and 129 Nos. LRAB.

 

[NDAR15MAN]

I am at Scheels sporting goods right now in Iowa city Iowa They have 2 used 224 Valk AR15 in the case for sale. real short barrels. Look like 18 or 20 inch barrels maybe. Looks like some one was not happy with them. Marty