What’s the benefit of having a long necked cartridge?

[Rifleman97]

I have been a member of some other shooting/hunting forums for quite some time but I've been interested in the Nosler cartridges and this forum has by far the most information about them so I figured I would join this one too.
There is a decent amount of guys talking about wildcatting a 33 Nosler down to a 28 for a minuscule difference in case length, and multiple guys have pushed the shoulder back on a 28 to have a longer neck and sacrifice just a little case capacity.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/28-yukon-yes-please.153705/

My question is, what's the benefit to having a long neck? And what's the benefit of having a case length that is .016" shorter? (Necking down 33 Nosler to 28 for shorter case)
Does a longer neck increase accuracy? Barrel life? Anything?
Does a .016" shorter case have any benefit... at all?

 

[martinakl]

I think it has something to do with keeping the flame in the cartridge a little longer to increase barrel life. Reducing heat/flame exiting the case. It's that first section of the rifling that goes first.

Check out the Sherman Short cartridges (6.5 SS and 7 SS). Those seem like well thought out wildcats and there's good explanations that might help answer your question.

Other probable reasons:

1) Some people just like to tinker with stuff

2) Someone wants to name a cartridge

 

[Rich Coyle]

Like has been stated: Longer barrel life.

 

[WildRose]

Voodoo mostly. Try shooting out a .300wm. It can be done but you'd almost have to be trying hard to get it done.

Shoulder angle I believe has far more to do with it than neck length by how it shapes the cone of the flame.

Also, one of the main things we can do to increase barrel life is by running slower burning powders that continue burning a much higher percentage of powder all the way down the length of the barrel rather than concentrating it in the first few inches.

 

[Cmrem700]

Could you push the 28 nosler shoulders back like the 6.5slr?

 

[Swamplord]

Longer neck = flame point = double extra barrel life, double accuracy , blah blah blah .... ALL bs ........ it's a selling point to the unwitting

a neck .257" long vs .308" will have the exact same throat life in same caliber case with same powder charge ...... a .050" longer neck WILL NOT give you a thousand rounds of extra barrel life much less 100

can you imagine how silly it sounds that the "flame point" cools so much in .050" as to double barrel life ?

folks .... the powder is still burning beyond the case mouth and into the barrel

I've played with long necked wildcats and have trashed those designs in favor of shorter necks, SD's have improved, accuracy has improved as well as better velocity prior to pressuring out

 

[Rifleman97]

That's what I thought, but I was not sure. There's a reason we have 26 and 28 inch barrels on the Nosler calibers, the powder is still burning. And I could be wrong but I thought the throat erosion wasn't from powder as much as the friction from the bullet getting the rifling engraved into the bullet as it entered the grooves (maybe a little bit of powder but not much) so I didn't understand why a long neck would change anything at all, the bullet still has to enter the lands and get slightly cut by the rifling, the powder is still burning and expanding...

 

[dmoon]

I've been mulling this over (based on what I was taught as a young man) and have finally formulated a question for you guys so you can "straighten" me out.

How much of a factor does neck length play into bullet alignment with the bore? Swamplord I'm not picking a fight, but your post was the one that got me to thinking the most....It seems to me (and I'm probably wrong, just trying to figure out where) that a "concentric" neck that was slightly longer would "hold" a bullet true longer (and I realize that this time is minimal), the SD's make sense to me but I've used graphite for years to cure that ill, and velocity would be a function of how much you were jumping.

Like I said, not wanting to pick a fight, I'm just wanting to learn/understand a little better.

I'm most likely going to have multiple other questions on this topic, so please bear with me

 

[tbrice23]

Longer neck = flame point = double extra barrel life, double accuracy , blah blah blah .... ALL bs ........ it's a selling point to the unwitting

a neck .257" long vs .308" will have the exact same throat life in same caliber case with same powder charge ...... a .050" longer neck WILL NOT give you a thousand rounds of extra barrel life much less 100

can you imagine how silly it sounds that the "flame point" cools so much in .050" as to double barrel life ?

folks .... the powder is still burning beyond the case mouth and into the barrel

I've played with long necked wildcats and have trashed those designs in favor of shorter necks, SD's have improved, accuracy has improved as well as better velocity prior to pressuring out

Yep, just look at a 270 Winchester. That **** case has to have one of the longest necks ever! It also has a very shallow shoulder angle. The only one I ever owned had one of the shortest barrel life.

 

[Rich Coyle]

tbrice23,

Maybe shoulder angle has a lot to do with it. Has anyone done testing in this area?

 

[Rifleman97]

I've been mulling this over (based on what I was taught as a young man) and have finally formulated a question for you guys so you can "straighten" me out.

How much of a factor does neck length play into bullet alignment with the bore? Swamplord I'm not picking a fight, but your post was the one that got me to thinking the most....It seems to me (and I'm probably wrong, just trying to figure out where) that a "concentric" neck that was slightly longer would "hold" a bullet true longer (and I realize that this time is minimal), the SD's make sense to me but I've used graphite for years to cure that ill, and velocity would be a function of how much you were jumping.

Like I said, not wanting to pick a fight, I'm just wanting to learn/understand a little better.

I'm most likely going to have multiple other questions on this topic, so please bear with me

There's something that kinda sorta makes sense to me, I think if you have a long throat and you're using super long high BC bullets for hunting (like the Berger 195 7mm) it could make them slightly tougher since the bullet might have a little less leverage to move around and thereby making the casings less concentric after being bumped. How much of a difference though is probably slim to none but we are here to learn so correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as shoulder angle goes, the Ackley improved cartridges usually have a little less throat life than their parent cases, I think that's just a matter of case capacity improvement from the steeper shoulder

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rifleman97,

Or the wildcatters run them at higher pressure.

 

[dmoon]

Next question I have, lets define throat erosion and fire cracking and relate that to "barrel life".

 

[J E Custom]

Neck length has many side effects but the only thing required of a neck is that It has enough length to align the bullet and enough length to hold it centered and with the proper bullet tension.

Neck Length Is determined by total internal surface in contact with the bullet. larger bore cartridges can do with shorter necks because of the total square inches in contact with the large diameter bullet surface.

Smaller diameter bullets require more neck length in order to get proper bullet tension because of the amount of internal surface area.

You can have necks that are to short and not have good alignment but with good loading procedures and quality dies, this can be dealt with within limits. If you have long necks and seat the bullet out where it is only in contact with a portion of the neck you may have problems with
both alignment and tension.

Some cartridges that have a very short neck will sometimes benefit from crimping into a cannelured bullet for added bullet tension allowing the powder longer to get pressure up for a more consistent burn. Better SDs and velocities are possible is some cases.

So in my opinion, If there is enough length to align the bullet correctly and supply enough bullet tension for a consistent powder burn then neck length is not that important. There might be something to the erosion theory but I have not seen any prof of this and normally measurable erosion is related to Pressure, velocity and the amount of powder that is allowed to burn out side of the chamber.

Just myopinion

J E CUSTOM