What twist for 223 Wylde and wide variety weight of bullets?

[Darryle]

I built a Savage LWH action into a switch barrel type rifle. I have been buying Criterion heavy sporter barrels from James at Northland Shooter Supply. I want to get a 26" Criterion 223 Wylde heavy sporter just for the kids, so they get plenty of trigger time behind the same stock and action they will hunt with this fall. It will probably be a 6mm Creedmoor or 7mm-08, haven't decided, but most likely the latter.

I am always running across deals on 223 ammo, but in varying weights. 55gr FMJ or HP will be the majority of bulk ammo purchases. Can I get away with an 8 twist for bullets up to 77gr or should I go with the 7 twist or even the 6.5 twist? I would like to try the VLDs up to the 90gr if I can stabilize them and still retain the ability to shoot the 55gr regularly.

I said all that to ask, can I use a fast twist barrel with the fast lighter weight bullets without blowing them up and still be able to occasionally shoot the fatties out to 400yds?

I played with the JBM data/Berger Stability calculator and I don't know if a 3.89 on the graph is as bad in the same way a 1.2/1.3 is bad for the fatties.

I understand the rpm calculator just enough to know that I am not a ballistician or even qualified to play one on TV.

Thanks Darryle

 

[HARPERC]

My Tikka 1-8" shoots the Hornady Match 75 grains, and 53 grain V-max exceptionally well.

For me I'd likely go 1-7" for heavier and mono's.

I haven't heard of a .223 being hard on lighter bullets, but if it's for the kids, and lightweights are a big part i think 1-8" is pretty versatile.

 

[ElkSurgeon]

Watching….

 

[Darryle]

I was overly optimistic about the 90gr VLD, but I definitely want to shoot the 75gr to 82gr factory occasionally.

I also have several cases of Winchester white box 55gr FMJ from the early 2000s when you could get a case for $100ish.

I think the 7 twist will suit my needs just fine.

Thanks guys!
Darryle

 

[budlight]

I was stupid and listed to the experts who didn't understand the velocity has an effect with twist rates. My first ar 15 was a wylde 20 inch 7 twist. 55 grain would fly through the paper at odd angles at 100 yards. 7 twist works in 16 inch barrels because the velocity is down around 2800 fps where my chrono was reading 3100 fps. So I was kinda forced into 75 gr match bullets which defeated the idea of cheap plentiful shooting.

So I offed that *** 7 twist barrel and bought 9 and later some 8 twist stainless 20 and 24 inch match grade rifles.

From all my testing 223 cases are limited by neck length and magazine 2.26 inches to max of 75 grain bullets. That is why the Valkerie case was designed for heavy 224's. The 223 case is not designed for big long bullets and end up clear down in the powder. The bullets become relatively slow because of the powder capacity.

8 twist min with 20 inch and longer if not 9 twist to enjoy cheap shooting 55 gr

 

[BallisticsGuy]

Shooting 90's in a .223 would necessitate either unreasonably low velocities or a really long throat that'll come with mag length issues. The really long throat is not going to be excellent for light bullets. You can shoot light bullets in fast twists though you may see jacket failures leading to poofs with some specific bullets. Excessive twist will exacerbate any density variations in the bullet and possibly lead to poor grouping but it'll otherwise work just fine for mag dumping into garbage.

 

[Darryle]

Yeah, I was way too optimistic about the 90gr, I guess I can stick with the 55gr bullets, but I would love to be able to occasionally shoot the 75gr BTHP for coyotes so I can get the kids on game during the summer months.

 

[waveslayer]

I'd run the bullet you want to use theough Berger's stability calculator and go from there. I'm running a 1/8 with 77gr SMK's with very good success. Remember it's velocity dependant like BC is

 

[Darryle]

I used the Berger calculator, I mentioned that in the original post. See the quoted text below

I played with the JBM data/Berger Stability calculator and I don't know if a 3.89 on the graph is as bad in the same way a 1.2/1.3 is bad for the fatties.

I understand the rpm calculator just enough to know that I am not a ballistician or even qualified to play one on TV.

Thanks Darryle

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Hey Darryle
Hope all is well with you and your family -Healthy Happy as can be.
We shoot many 233s in past years. and now settled on our last one - RRA RE Coyote in 223 with a 20" barrel Wylde Chamber. Just means you can shoot .223 SAAMI and 5.56 Military in the same chamber without a problem with chamber pressure.
We shoot everything from Hornady 50gr "ZMax" to 65gr SGK with exceptional results (.25" groups). Don't see why you couldn't go up to 77gr bullets in a 1:8 twist.
If you want to shoot heavier bullets and thinking about a 6mm, just go that way and keep the 223 under 77gr-suggest 69gr depending on what you are wanting to shoot as game. If just trigger time and target just stay in the 50-60 gr range 223.
I personally would not go up from 65gr SGK in a 223. SMK It works great for Hogs and can deer as well with the correct placed bullet.
77 SMK in a 223 will work also depends on what velocity you want, what range, what ft lbs at impact.
If you want to go to 90 gr get a 6mm or a 22BR for a .224 bullet.

 

[waveslayer]

I used the Berger calculator, I mentioned that in the original post. See the quoted text below

Correct, but shoot it and know going into it that it's no an ideal stable bullet for your twist.. Unless you overcome it with velocity. Change the velocity and see how it will effect the stability.

Or go 1/7 and don't look back.

 

[436]

I have an LR Rem 700 in .223 Rem std chamber with a 26.5" barrel in 1-8" twist, most of the stuff I put through it is 80gr but... the 77gr do very well.
However, with that said; I use the 77gr M262 Mod 1 OTM hand load clone in my Colt CAR 16" with a 1-7" twist and again very accurate for a small carbine. I think I'd go with the 1-8" twist. Cheers

 

[HSmithTX]

My Mk12 barrel is 8 twist and 18", it shoots 55-80 grain very well. I have never tried anything lighter than 55. The 80's are single load though and after I worked the load up I haven't shot many. It shoots the 55 so well that I bought a bunch of them and rarely shoot anything else. All of my 16" barrels are 7 twist and 18's to 20" are 8. I have only shot up to 69 grains in the 16" barrels but again no issues.

 

[Lionel Boyd Johnson]

I built a Savage LWH action into a switch barrel type rifle. I have been buying Criterion heavy sporter barrels from James at Northland Shooter Supply. I want to get a 26" Criterion 223 Wylde heavy sporter just for the kids, so they get plenty of trigger time behind the same stock and action they will hunt with this fall. It will probably be a 6mm Creedmoor or 7mm-08, haven't decided, but most likely the latter.

I am always running across deals on 223 ammo, but in varying weights. 55gr FMJ or HP will be the majority of bulk ammo purchases. Can I get away with an 8 twist for bullets up to 77gr or should I go with the 7 twist or even the 6.5 twist? I would like to try the VLDs up to the 90gr if I can stabilize them and still retain the ability to shoot the 55gr regularly.

I said all that to ask, can I use a fast twist barrel with the fast lighter weight bullets without blowing them up and still be able to occasionally shoot the fatties out to 400yds?

I played with the JBM data/Berger Stability calculator and I don't know if a 3.89 on the graph is as bad in the same way a 1.2/1.3 is bad for the fatties.

I understand the rpm calculator just enough to know that I am not a ballistician or even qualified to play one on TV.

Thanks Darryle

From my experience with 7 .223 match rifles, a 1-8" twist is a good "do it all" choice. It will easily stabilize Berger 80 grain VLDs, and does not blow up 50 grain varmint bullets. -Ed