weighing and sorting brass & weighing, measuring and sorting bullets

[SidecarFlip]

Thank you for that opportunity or more importantly this opportunity.

Not every reloading situation demands the same attention to detail.

SidecarFlip seems to be referring to reloading for a point and spray type devices. Waste of time indeed sorting bullets or brass for such a device but then it is my belief that for hunting or accuracy shooting the point and spray device is a waste of time. To each his own I guess. Y`all'd be better off getting some milsurp and getting off the reloading forums cuz ya don't know cu about cumber much less anythin about reloadin.

Not at all. In fact almost all are for hunting. I just happen to do all the reloading and load workup for our entire group of 7 hunters so I load a lot of rounds in many different calibers with a wide assortment of pills for bolt guns and pistols...we hunt with pistols here..... No spray guns. Don't even own an AR platform and don't want one (if thats what you are referring to).......

Closest thing I have to a 'spray gun' would be a Ruger accurized Mini 14 Target chambered 223 for 100 yard benchrest comp. The only gas op blowback action in the entire group of modern firearms. We have some Class 3 C&R weapons but those aren't considered hunting firearms, not iin the correct sense of the word at least.

I take my reloading very seriously, all the time. My friend's safety, accuracy and a clean kill is paramount as well as their trust in my judgement concerning their loads.

Factory ammunition has come a long way in terms of attained accuracy and variety in the las 15 years but handloading is still better because you can custom tailor your round. I just wanted to poke you a bit. I've never weighed anything, cases or pills. never seen a need to, but thats just me.

I'm not that anal (about weight differentials) and our group hunts everywhere, even out your way and there are a lot of mounts in their homes that attest to their kills.

Cucumbers give me indigestion anyways.

Keep on weighing and whatever.

 

[Mikecr]

jfseaman, I'd like to know what you 'think' you know about my buzzwords?
But before giving it a shot, if you care to do so, take pause and be careful now.

OP, are you still around?

 

[dmax1800]

OP, are you still around?

Yes, I'm still here. Just trying to keep up on this thread, even though I don't really think my question is getting answered. But its fun reading.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Yes, I'm still here. Just trying to keep up on this thread, even though I don't really think my question is getting answered. But its fun reading.

Because no one can answer that question definitively. We have given you a lot of information to answer it yourself. If you are not a serious BR shooter, you will not likely notice the difference. You could spend a lot of powder, bullets and barrel life experimenting to see for yourself.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Screw alll that mess! I'm not weighing and sorting jack crap, and my rifles are shooting 1/4-1/2 MOA. Unless it's possible to shoot tighter groups than 1/4 MOA, then in which case I MIGHT consider weighing and sorting.

And some of my brass is Federal, Hornady, Lapua, etc...

I don't, however, mix and match brands.

 

[Mikecr]

My question is: how much difference in accuracy is all my weighing, measuring and sorting going to make at 400 yards? Is it really worth all the time sorting?

dmax1800, discussions often wonder. Sorry your question wasn't directly answered.
As it can't be predicted, a purely logical answer is;
Culling 20 from 150 bullets is worth it if the difference in 400yd accuracy with your efforts so far makes it worth it.

In other words, you're going to have to answer this one.

 

[FAL Shot]

At 400 yards or less, you are basically wasting your time sorting Barnes, Nosler or Swift bullets. It's better to concentrate on precise powder charge weight and choosing a powder that is temperature insensitive. Quality brass like Norma, Lapua, or Nosler needs no sorting either.

Look for a powder that is almost full to slightly compressed when it shoots the most accurately. Low powder charges are inconswistent, and even if they use temperature insensitive powders, they will shoot differently if angled up, down or level.

To produce a more stable backpressure for consistent ignition, use a Lee FCD after seating your bullets. Equal case trim length leads to a consistent crimp, so trim all cases at the same time to the same length.

Brass that weighs within 3% range seems to shoot rather well, certainly good enough for 400 yard work.

Bullets should weigh within 0.5% range of each other, but with Nosler, Barnes or Swift bullets you will see just about every bullet pass that test. That is 1 whole grain at 200 grain bullet weight, which nearly all premium bullets will achieve.

 

[MNbogboy]

Mikecr gave some good advice here: "For the learning, you might assemble the spreads in extreme and do some testing."

Sort as you may but save the extremes for the same group....mix the bullet extremes with the case weights extremes in a round robin fashion...Make sure to number & record all the pertinent data....(BTW, It may be best that your weight and or volume sorted brass be at least "twice fired", sized & trimmed before sorting)...

Then make up a lot with the tightest specs of your "best" stuff that you think you should hold....Number and record everything about each load....

Make up two five shot groups of each...Shoot all the groups at at least 200 and if you have access to 400 yards and if the weather is not too wild so much the better....Have a partner hand you each cartridge as you shoot...You are not allowed to know which group he is handing you until you are done shooting all four groups....

Try to keep your barrel temps reasonably consistent....Shooting over a chrono is also a good idea if you have access to one....Record any available data including shot calls and wind gusts for each shot....

The results of this simple test may or may not surprise you....But it will probably answer your questions with the simple 20 shot test....

I sometimes do this test after sorting out the heavy & light weight cases after they have been twice fired....Sometimes I see a lot of difference other times I cannot see much change if any....But since I like to shoot it helps me get rid of those "errant" Bergers (plus or minus .035 on length and .015 cbto)....As far as bullet weights, the Bergers I shoot mostly run plus or minus a tenth and I do not sort them by weight at all anymore....Length with their VLDs however seems to be an issue at times depending on the rifle....

Weight sorting is the simplest on "fireformed" cases....Checking H2Os after will further "proof" them but differences at that point are defined by both internal and external posturing of the case itself (external dimensions not as a result or part of fireforming such as the case head/rim configuration)...

Resultant H20 capacity may be the same but in all actuality with a different internal shape or position from the primer/flashole (which may or may not have an effect on the combustion itself)........

This leads to my "range" sorting method where unexpected flyers are marked with a sharpy and tracked to subsequent range trials.....two bad grades and they are off to the scrapper....Sorting out the bad ones by shooting is not nearly as messy as the H2O method which I no longer do....Because for my uses and shooting ability there was no discernable difference with weight sorted and volume sorted cases....In fact once weight sorted the volumes were almost always within my tolerance to begin with....

Further testing depending on the rifle, caliber and loads showed that in some instances I was actually able to open my case weight limits up with no group/velocity changes....

Sorry for the long winded post but hope this may help,
Randy

 

[Deederswy]

I think moombaskier said it best....will it really make that big of a difference especially out to 400 yards? Maybe...maybe not, but if you did it will it give you the confidence to shoot better and more accurate yourself? I would say that there is more human variations and errors that would cause your round to move just a little than bullet and brass weight, but thats just my opinion....but if its what you like to do and it makes you have more confidence in your loads, then do it because what will happen if you dont and you go out shooting and you have one thats a bit off you will blame the load and have less confidence in your load. Do what will make you feel better about your shooting and try not to over think it and take the enjoyment out of it.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

jfseaman, I'd like to know what you 'think' you know about my buzzwords?
But before giving it a shot, if you care to do so, take pause and be careful now.

OP, are you still around?

What does that mean?