Hey Guys, I need some advice, just got back from the range it was 38 degrees over cast and very calm, I even take ice water towel to lay on my stainless barrel while i walk back n forth to my 100 yd target, I shot 3 groups of 57.5 grn 57.8 grn and 58 grns of h 1000 thru my 2506 with 115 grn berger and all 9 shots were dead nuts on right to left but all 3 groups rose .25 in from 1st to 2nd to 3rd always having 3rd shot .75 in high but horizontaly on. I talked to a couple of my loading buddy's they said take off a .32nd off my action screws so I did, no biggie there but I remembered what our old dear and departed ex army reloader used to say, if its in a vertical rise it wants more powder. Has any u guy's had this happen to u? was He on to something? This guy actully reloaded for the military, and the 1976 olympic team with all the awards and accolades to prove it
vertical spread
- Thread starter red dawg
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C.O. Shooter
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Do you have pictures of your groups? Are your action screws torqued? If so, what inch pounds?
New rifle? Or just working up a new load for a tack driver with a different bullet? Old loads work better?
What kind of rifle is this? Custom? factory? Sporter? Bull?
Like C.O. says some pics would be cool.
The anointed ones are on vacation, but maybe we can help anyway.
What kind of rifle is this? Custom? factory? Sporter? Bull?
Like C.O. says some pics would be cool.
The anointed ones are on vacation, but maybe we can help anyway.
Never ever heard of that guys explanation as to why shots climb vertically that consistently; very weird. Nor can I figure out why adding more powder would make shots stop changing exactly 1/4" vertically for every shot fired. I wonder what his reasons are for stringing that same way down, left and right.
But I demonstrated that happening shooting a shouldered rifle as it rested atop bags on a benchtop. I leaned forward and down a little bit harder for the second and more for the third shot. As the barrel had a contact point at the fore end tip up against the barrel, the more I leaned forward and down on the rifle, the more the fore end pressed up against the barrel. The barrel just bounced vertically more for each shot. Barrels bounce off of hard things so that convinced the rifle's owner to free float the barrel. After that barrel was free floated, it would shoot several shots to point of aim inside 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
One other possible cause; the barrel and receiver heat up a little with each shot. That heat expands the metal. If the barrel shoulder bears against the receiver face at one point more than even all the way around, that point bears hardest on the barrel. So, the barrel ends up with a stress point there that bends/bounces the barrel up a bit more in a direction opposite the hard bearing point for each shot. Fix it by having the receiver face squared off a few thousandths then a shim put in to headspace the barrel correctly when clocked in. Good barrels so fit in well built rifles will shoot several dozen shots into 1/3 inch at 100 yards; and with a grain or more spread across different charge weights for a given bullet.
But I demonstrated that happening shooting a shouldered rifle as it rested atop bags on a benchtop. I leaned forward and down a little bit harder for the second and more for the third shot. As the barrel had a contact point at the fore end tip up against the barrel, the more I leaned forward and down on the rifle, the more the fore end pressed up against the barrel. The barrel just bounced vertically more for each shot. Barrels bounce off of hard things so that convinced the rifle's owner to free float the barrel. After that barrel was free floated, it would shoot several shots to point of aim inside 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
One other possible cause; the barrel and receiver heat up a little with each shot. That heat expands the metal. If the barrel shoulder bears against the receiver face at one point more than even all the way around, that point bears hardest on the barrel. So, the barrel ends up with a stress point there that bends/bounces the barrel up a bit more in a direction opposite the hard bearing point for each shot. Fix it by having the receiver face squared off a few thousandths then a shim put in to headspace the barrel correctly when clocked in. Good barrels so fit in well built rifles will shoot several dozen shots into 1/3 inch at 100 yards; and with a grain or more spread across different charge weights for a given bullet.
Guy's I don't know how to post pictures, but the stock ridgity is a load of s##t I have a spare that i used this morning and my groups went from my last trip from .75 to up to over 2in, good cold morning 24 degrees no wind, oh yea! this is a gun I've had since 1994 did shoot bergers well with 4350, but wanted more case fill and velocity so I've been trying h1000 and had some groups of .421 .485 and every load before today was .75 or better, My next step will be trying some cci's 200 and 250's PS there were 2 guy's at the range yesterday when I wanted to use the gun as a steel post, said I would give anything if my gun shot that well. I may adjust my length a little farther of the lands and try a ladder test of .010 shorter
Primers might be a good place to look. I would also be running everything thru a chrony to see what the SD looks like.
I have a 25-06 also. Never tried H1000, but have had good success with Retumbo and F210M behind a 110 Accubond.
I have a 25-06 also. Never tried H1000, but have had good success with Retumbo and F210M behind a 110 Accubond.
The only time I changed primers was 3 weeks back from215m's to 210's and things got better , I've been sitting at my bench looking at week ago targets and yesterday with same charges and 210's and u would have to look hard to see if its one 30 cal. hole or 3 25 cal. holes, maybe its copper build up? or my eye sight? I went back to my old loads for this gun and my seating depth had gotten .015 longer so I fixed that my friends say I over think things or I'm to picky, its a factory gun it shoots great! quit complaining! But the last 2 trips were to make sure I had the right combo and its not looking that way
Hey Barrel Nut, I meant to tell u its a 116 stainless savage 26in tube, I got to shoot 9 of my 12 loads I did 6 with cci250's and 6 with fed 210's that is what I have been using , well I got to the more accurate loads and it got too shady to finish, but got 3 rounds off with the cci's at 57.5 grns and all 3 are touching at 100 for a group of .421 so may be some hope yet, the gun was pretty coppered so cleaning had to help
To whomever that had curiosity of this problem, I found my old info on o.a.l. changed back to that, and figured out that this gun likes to be trimmed to minimum specs after all firings, it still needed cleaning even after I thought it was clean, it loves h1000 at 57.5grains with my original fed210 primer into one hole.I tried cci 200 with same charge along with cci 250 as well to an average group of .495, after all that testing, I stuck 57.5 with fed 210 back in it for another one hole 3 shot group. I guess this stainless barrel loves clean, not just carbon free. Thanks C O SHOOTER, and BARREL NUT , BART B for showing concern and giving advice!
