Velocity as it relates to bullet performance?

[BoomFlop]

I know almost all manufacturers list a velocity range for a particular bullet. That range is often 1000-1500 fps (or more) from the max to the min. How can a bullet perform optimally with that variance in speed? I mean a bullet at 3000 fps cannot perform remotely close to the same bullet traveling at 1800 fps!

Most all the calibers I shoot are more traditional/vanilla compared to most of you. I use a 7mm-08 and 308 for deer and 223 for coyotes. I hear most people say that at 7mm-08 and 308 every bullet performs well.....

What is the optimal velocity for different bullets? I'm guessing you cannot shoot a Barnes bullet too fast, and slower means far less expansion. At the other end of the spectrum would probably be a Berger which it seems performs best once velocity has been depleted.

Most all my shots are short range with "mild" calibers. I'm curious if there seems to be narrow speed ranges that people feel work best. For example a Barnes is best over 3000 fps and a Berger is at its best at 2200-2500 fps.

What say you? What are your experiences? Does shot placement change your velocity range? I am looking for a bullet that mushrooms to as big as possible quickly, but does not come apart!

Looking forward to hearing everyone's experiences.

Steve

 

[elkaholic]

I know almost all manufacturers list a velocity range for a particular bullet. That range is often 1000-1500 fps (or more) from the max to the min. How can a bullet perform optimally with that variance in speed? I mean a bullet at 3000 fps cannot perform remotely close to the same bullet traveling at 1800 fps!

Most all the calibers I shoot are more traditional/vanilla compared to most of you. I use a 7mm-08 and 308 for deer and 223 for coyotes. I hear most people say that at 7mm-08 and 308 every bullet performs well.....

What is the optimal velocity for different bullets? I'm guessing you cannot shoot a Barnes bullet too fast, and slower means far less expansion. At the other end of the spectrum would probably be a Berger which it seems performs best once velocity has been depleted.

Most all my shots are short range with "mild" calibers. I'm curious if there seems to be narrow speed ranges that people feel work best. For example a Barnes is best over 3000 fps and a Berger is at its best at 2200-2500 fps.

What say you? What are your experiences? Does shot placement change your velocity range? I am looking for a bullet that mushrooms to as big as possible quickly, but does not come apart!

Looking forward to hearing everyone's experiences.

Steve

I like the eldm's for what you are describing and you might take a look at the new Sierra game changer for a little tougher bullet.

 

[BoomFlop]

elkaholic

You obviously understand cartridges/velocity as better than most (being a successful designer of great cartridges).

I believe you also seem to favor velocity for on game performance (from reading your posts), correct? In the mild calibers that I shoot vs what you design, what velocity would I be looking for? What bullets do you favor?

Thank you Sir!
Steve

 

[elkaholic]

elkaholic

You obviously understand cartridges/velocity as better than most (being a successful designer of great cartridges).

I believe you also seem to favor velocity for on game performance (from reading your posts), correct? In the mild calibers that I shoot vs what you design, what velocity would I be looking for? What bullets do you favor?

Thank you Sir!
Steve

The ELDM will take a fair amount of velocity but will expand lower as well. For a 308 with say the 178 ELDM, you should be in good shape in that 2000-2700' range that you would be shooting. I don't think you will blow up close at that speed as I've had good penetration above that speed. Also, you should still expand at 500 yards or so.

 

[AZShooter]

Regarding the berger working its best at the velocity you suggested (2200-2500) I have never shot an animal with my 257 Weatherby and 115 VLDs with impact velocities below 2800 fps with many hits a bit above 3200 fps. No issues what so ever on antelope or coues deer. Bullet has always exited without making giant holes. Of course, I am not shooting shoulders either.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

All bullets have a designed in impact velocity window which defines where you're likely to see consistent bullet upset/deformation. Modern bullets utilize things like strategically tapered jacket thickness, skiving cuts and polymer tips, core/jacket bonding, etc... to tweak the performance windows to be as well tailored as possible to the intended use case/game.

They're trying to make the front just fragile enough to upset easily but not so fragile as to blow right apart and gradually tapering that strength upward as you move toward the back of the bullet so you get good mushrooming. Materials scientists work every day with ballisticians to try and crack the recipe to the do-it-all bullet with little real hope of getting there but also with a very real continual improvement in consistency and flexibility being delivered to the marketplace.

Look at the following picture. This is a monometal bullet which doesn't seem like it's going to expand well below 2000fps. Without the polymer tip to initiate expansion it might not expand even that well. Those are pretty tall impact velocities. Monometals have for a long time suffered from a need to have impact speeds be pretty high. Not all but most. This is an extremely tough bullet.

But now look at this one of what looks like a Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame. It's opening up a little bit still at 1650 but really under 1950 it's losing the ability to open up much. The stiffly tapered jacket allows the front end to be really fragile so it will expand down to 1650 while the mid-bullet partition allows the bullet to hold together at impact velocities over 2600fps that would blow a lot of bullets apart. This is a very tough bullet.

Now look at a Norma Oryx. The jacket is nearly untapered. It will have a comparatively narrow optimal impact velocity above which expansion can turn to fragmentation and reduce penetration and below which it simply won't expand. This is not an exceptionally tough bullet but it looks to be a bonded bullet which helps.

Then we get to much weaker bullets like the Sierra Game King. This has an untapered or very nearly untapered jacket thickness, it's not bonded and it has an exposed soft lead tip. If you push it too hard it'll fragment from stem to stern. This is not a very tough bullet at all which makes it great for thin skinned medium sized game like whitetail deer.

Then you have things like the original Nosler ballistic tips and Remington Core-Lokt's which I've always experienced to be pretty darned fragile which are seemingly that way by design.

You need to pick the bullet you'll use for the task at hand and whatever you do, don't rely on anecdotes for indications of what to expect. The manufacturer of the bullet is the authority.

 

[MagnumManiac]

To answer your question more precisely, not all bullets in the SAME CALIBRE are equal.
Case in point are the Nosler Ballistic Tip and Accubond.
In regard to weight, the bullets are designed for different cartridge 'windows'.
The 150gr-165gr are designed for medium cartridges like the 300 Savage, 308 Win & 30-06, amongst others. The 180gr-220gr are designed for the short magnums up through the super magnums.
How they do this is by tapering the jacket at differing percentages of it's length, the higher the thick part is, the less peel back occurs, controlling how much expansion takes place.
I am an enquisitive soul, I section every bullet I use to see exactly where the Partition, jacket taper starts and stops.
The most interesting are 1980's 180gr 30 cal Ballistic Tips compared to today's Ballistic Tips, the 1980's vintage are longer and thinner in the jacket compared to today.
Woodleigh bullets are interesting, the jacket makes up almost 1/3 of the total weight and measures over .100" thick before it tapers to the nose.

I could go on, as I have sectioned most brands, the Speer Grand Slam also has a very thick tapering jacket.

Cheers.

 

[Plinker147]

A bullet that mushrooms big and holds together are the swift -siroccos. They will work well for what you describing.

For me to keep it simple if I'm pushing a bullet 3k or better I think it's best to stick with a bonded high weight retention type bullet. Under 3k I don't think it matters as much. Lots of variables but this is my simple way of looking at it.

I have shot lots of big game deer, elk, Oryx, bears, Barbary,with all kind of bullets like ballistic tips, core locks, Berger's, Sirocos, accubonds, LRABs, sierras and have never had a bullet failure.

 

[catamountsierra]

One other thing to consider is your preferred bullet placement; if you shoot shoulders you might want a tougher bullet than if you shoot ribs.
I had great results shooting the 140 Accubond and the 150 ABLR out of my 7mm08; muzzle velocities were 2825 and 2750 respectively and the bullets resulted in quick clean kills between 60 and 250 yards when shot through ribs and both lungs. I wasn't able to retrieve the bullets so I didn't get to see how much they opened.