Truing an action over rated?

[FIGJAM]

So I have a Remington 700 Sendero SFII in 25-06 (one of the original special runs for 2008 or 2009) and I am going to rebarrel it to a 280 AI. I have been visiting with some gun smiths about the project and all of them want to true my action for $250-400. This gun currently shoots 1" groups at 200 yards all day long with very little load development. I probably could have shrunk the groups with a little more work, but stopped at 1/2 moa. Does my action really need to be trued? The sendero sf II is one of remingtons higher end guns and because it is a shooter I am thinking it might be a waste of money. The barrel sits straight in the stock etc. Have read several opinions and would like to hear yours?

 

[bigngreen]

The Sendero is the same action as a SPS, it's a sure bet it's crooked to some degree, if all you want is to shoot close and aren't driven for accuracy then no real reason to go through the action, you won't know the difference. If your wanting to take it to it's potential and not leave anything on the table or long range is what it's for then have it trued.
What I'd say gets the most for the least is to square the receiver face, integral lugs, bolt lugs and bush the firing pin.

 

[Braunschweiger]

The Sendero is the same action as a SPS, it's a sure bet it's crooked to some degree, if all you want is to shoot close and aren't driven for accuracy then no real reason to go through the action, you won't know the difference. If your wanting to take it to it's potential and not leave anything on the table or long range is what it's for then have it trued.
What I'd say gets the most for the least is to square the receiver face, integral lugs, bolt lugs and bush the firing pin.

I agree... I dont trust factory receivers. It's likely not true and if you want to shoot any real distance it probably needs it.

 

[J E Custom]

When re barreling, it is best to leave no stone un-turned so you can eliminate any potential accuracy issues to start with. Truing is one of those potential problems that can be eliminated. $400.00 sounds a little high but if the smith does everything it will be worth it $ 200.00 to $300.00 sounds in the ballpark to me as long as they will do a good job.

In addition to all the things Big recommended, I also like to square the bolt face before head spacing if bushing the firing pin is not needed.

The fact that It shoots good now doesn't mean that when a new barrel is screwed on that it will shoot better. it is the sum of all work that makes an accurate rifle.

Most likely the smith will not give you any accuracy guarantee without blue printing/accurizing.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tangent]

I've found that truing/blueprinting means something different to each gunsmith I've used. I think you should see what is included in the 'truing'. If he's just lapping lugs for a few hundred dollars, than find someone else. However, if you're getting the bolt face, nose, & lugs worked over, receiver honed, etc., then price might be worth it.

Any time I've rebarreled a rifle using a factory action, I have the action/bolt 'trued' since costs have been in the $200 - $300 range & I think it's worth the peace of mind.

 

[Rick Richard]

I believe when rebarreling using a factory action spend the extra couple hundred bucks to true the action. Like said "leave no stone unturned".

I just had a Remington 5R rebarreled and the action truing cost me $225.

 

[Jud96]

I have two custom rifles built on 700 long actions. One is a .308 Norma Mag with a Bartlein barrel, the other is a .284 Win with a Bartlein barrel. The Norma and .284 both had the receiver faces squared up, and I lapped the lugs on the Norma and had the threads cleaned up on the .284 Win. That's as much trueing as either one of them has. The Norma has never shot a group at 100 yards larger than 3/4 MOA, even during load development, and consistently shoots in the .3s and .4s at 100 yards. I've hit 12" steel plates with boring repeatability out to 1000 yards, and made my first ever hit at 1 mile with that rifle. The .284 I'm still working on load development with, but it has already proven to shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups at 100 yards.

If you have the money and want to ring out every possible ounce of accuracy from your action and rifle, then have it trued. If you just want a rifle that will shoot sub MOA and be consistent, then rebarrel a 700 action with a good quality barrel. I'm sure people will disagree, but I have literally seen nearly a dozen factory actions that have not been "trued" and they all shoot 1/2 MOA or better. Everyone one of them has a quality barrel from Krieger, Hart, Bartlein, Brux, etc. and that's what really makes a difference.

If you're building a target rifle then you wouldn't use a 700 action anyways. If you're building an accurate hunting rifle for shots out to 1000 yards, then I don't believe having your action trued is going to make a drastic difference. Use a quality barrel, a good stock, proper and consistent reloading components and equipment, and do proper load development. You will have a rifle that is plenty of accurate enough for hunting, even out to 800-1000 yards.

 

[FIGJAM]

I have two custom rifles built on 700 long actions. One is a .308 Norma Mag with a Bartlein barrel, the other is a .284 Win with a Bartlein barrel. The Norma and .284 both had the receiver faces squared up, and I lapped the lugs on the Norma and had the threads cleaned up on the .284 Win. That's as much trueing as either one of them has. The Norma has never shot a group at 100 yards larger than 3/4 MOA, even during load development, and consistently shoots in the .3s and .4s at 100 yards. I've hit 12" steel plates with boring repeatability out to 1000 yards, and made my first ever hit at 1 mile with that rifle. The .284 I'm still working on load development with, but it has already proven to shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups at 100 yards.

If you have the money and want to ring out every possible ounce of accuracy from your action and rifle, then have it trued. If you just want a rifle that will shoot sub MOA and be consistent, then rebarrel a 700 action with a good quality barrel. I'm sure people will disagree, but I have literally seen nearly a dozen factory actions that have not been "trued" and they all shoot 1/2 MOA or better. Everyone one of them has a quality barrel from Krieger, Hart, Bartlein, Brux, etc. and that's what really makes a difference.

If you're building a target rifle then you wouldn't use a 700 action anyways. If you're building a accurate hunting rifle for shots out to 1000 yards, then I don't believe having your action trued is going to make a drastic difference. Use a quality barrel, a good stock, proper and consistent reloading components and equipment, and do proper load development. You will have a rifle that is plenty of accurate enough for hunting, even out to 800-1000 yards.

This is what I am wondering - isn't the majority of the accuracy from the barrel and a good chamber job?

 

[Canhunter35]

As others have said, there's a difference between gunsmiths and what each one considers blueprinting or trueing and to what degree.
I've never seen the point of rebarreling and not trueing the action. Just buy another Sendero if that's the case and sell this one for parts

 

[Jud96]

This is what I am wondering - isn't the majority of the accuracy from the barrel and a good chamber job?

When I built both of my rifles, I was on a budget. I try to use the best components I can afford. One thing I don't cheap out on is the barrel and who does the work. I had so many people tell me I had to get my actions trued, but I had personally witnessed rifles over and over shoot tiny groups and hit plates and kill deer way out there and they had no trued actions. My best advice to you is, if you can comfortably afford to have your action trued and it makes you sleep better at night, then by all means do it. It can't hurt anything. If you just want an accurate rifle to hunt and shoot mid to long range with, then just buy a top notch barrel and go with a good smith. I really think most of your accuracy comes from your barrel, reloading components and equipment, and your load development and techniques.

 

[Jud96]

As others have said, there's a difference between gunsmiths and what each one considers blueprinting or trueing and to what degree.
I've never seen the point of rebarreling and not trueing the action. Just buy another Sendero if that's the case and sell this one for parts

My 700 Long Range went from shooting 1" groups down to 3/8" groups with a barrel change. I have witnessed the same for multiple rifles. Trueing is not the end all be all for accuracy. If you want the ultimate accuracy your rifle can achieve, you can afford it and it helps you feel better, then of course have it done. But to say rebarreling a factory rifle with a high quality barrel and not having it trued is the equivalent of buying another factory rifle is 100% BS.

 

[Amf247]

In my opinion: You called it a "shooter" and I understand what you meant by that. But that's all the reason I'd need to have that action trued up. My opinion of actions has changed over the last several years. Is it necessary to use a custom action to achieve full accuracy potential? I've found that it's not required, but starting with a straight and true action is. The action is really a delivery device to the chamber/ barrel, it still plays an integral role at for accuracy at ignition.
In short, I will always do it to eliminate variables in my shooting systems. Good luck in your re-barrel!

 

[codyadams]

I have seen a couple people that had their rifles rebarreled without trueing the action. Here are my observations.

The few rifles I have developed loads for that did not true the actions but had a quality barrel on, would usually shoot 5 shot groups around .3-.4" with a little tuning, and would shoot nearly everything under 1".

The rifles that I have developed loads for that had the action trued and quality barrels on them or were built on quality custom actions, would shoot pretty much everything .7-.8 or better, and with a little tuning would shoot 5 shot groups in the .2"-.3"'s, and with a little more work would hit the .1's occasionally if I was having a good day and mostly shoot in the .2's.

To summarize, either one would get in the .3's or .4's relatively easy, which is suitable/acceptable for long range hunting. However, truing the action or having a custom action raised the accuracy potential of a rifle, and with a little more developement would produce on average better accuracy than an untrued action.

In my personal rifles, they are trued (by a good smith). I don't stop load developement until 5 shot groups are in the low .3's to .2's.

Below are pictures of the left and right bolt lug of a factory remington 700 action. Food for thought.

 

[bigngreen]

What trueing does is bring consistency, ever wonder why that cold bore shot is out of the group or you see flyers, this is one of those places you'll see those coming from. I would say most accuracy potential is in the barrel BUT the barrel can't fix anything attached to it, a firing pin springs or a dragging firing pin will destroy consistency, a barrel under stress destroys consistency, you be able to shoot groups that are cool to post about but you'll find yourself making excuses like the wind got that one or I pulled it or the bag dropped when in reality you've screwed a perfect barrel to something less perfect.