True MACHINIST gunsmiths? (a rare breed)

[Edd]

What is considered "machine work"? Is fitting the parts together after threading and chambering considered machine work?

I don't think sending someone a box of parts and getting back a fully assembled, and flawlessly functioning, rifle and a bill for $2000 is too far out of line.

 

[Rick Richard]

What is considered "machine work"? Is fitting the parts together after threading and chambering considered machine work?

I don't think sending someone a box of parts and getting back a fully assembled, and flawlessly functioning, rifle and a bill for $2000 is too far out of line.

That depends on what they are doing. That seems a bit much for just labor

 

[J E Custom]

What is considered "machine work"? Is fitting the parts together after threading and chambering considered machine work?

I don't think sending someone a box of parts and getting back a fully assembled, and flawlessly functioning, rifle and a bill for $2000 is too far out of line.

 

[Rhett Crider]

I use Pete at Precision Barrel Works. He finished my 28Nosler yesterday. I took him a new Rem 700 LR M40 in 300RUM w/ a new Bartlien SS 6.5 4B 8T and a Timney trigger. He chambered, crowned, fluted, and machined side port muzzle brake(intergrated) the barrel. Trued the receiver and bolt, bedded the action, installed the trigger( set at 2.5lbs), and pushed the throat. Also bead blasted the barrel to match the receiver. I will be driving to Hempstead tomorrow w/ $1125.00 to pick it up. This will be my 4th build from him. All have been flawless and 1/2-1/4 MOA once I've done the load development(300RUM and 28Nosler are in the load development stage now). 25-06 is 1/2 MOA and 264WM is 1/4 MOA.
I consider this very reasonable for the outstanding quality he produces.

 

[Pdvdh]

What is considered "machine work"? Is fitting the parts together after threading and chambering considered machine work?

I don't think sending someone a box of parts and getting back a fully assembled, and flawlessly functioning, rifle and a bill for $2000 is too far out of line.

How do you define out of line?
When $2000 exceeds the cost charged by the majority of competing gunsmiths that produce equally good work, then that meets the criteria for "out of line", for the common customer, IMO.
Of course, some will define out of line differently...

 

[J E Custom]

What is considered "machine work"? Is fitting the parts together after threading and chambering considered machine work?

I don't think sending someone a box of parts and getting back a fully assembled, and flawlessly functioning, rifle and a bill for $2000 is too far out of line.

I totally agree that a complete build could cost $2,000.00 if there were lots of stock work and special treatments to the barrel and stock to add work to the Gunsmith.

I call machine work anything to do with the metal work. Barrel contouring, crowning, threading and chambering, Complete Blue print to action, And anything else that needs to be machined. $2,000.00
is about the limit for all of this work. There is other work that takes time that needs to be addressed like and Inletting the stock and floor
metal and Pillar bedding that are routine, but take time and can sdd to the charges.

Then you have to add the cost of all components if purchased bu the smith.

All of this has to be added up for a total price. $2500 to $3500 should be about max for the complete build depending on the amount of machine Work and component cost.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Edd]

How do you define out of line?
...

I think it is defined similar to the way equally good work is defined.

 

[Pdvdh]

Agree, but my experience, and many others more qualified and experienced than mine (even practicing gunsmiths) indicate quality machine work at substantially less than $2000.
If you're talking custom wood stock work, that's another category of gunsmithing work.
For the complete machine work, and glass bedding if the barrelled action to a McMillan stock, much less than $2K.
Also, if a high quality custom action is provided to a gunsmith, there will be no action truing or machine work required on the action. Deduct $250-300 right from the get-go, compared to a factory/production action.

 

[Edd]

Make a list of all the steps it takes to turn an assortment of parts into a functioning rifle. The components and features one chooses will have a large spread in cost. You have to be specific about the details. For example, J E made a reference to "Complete Blueprint" someone else said "trued receiver and bolt". That step alone could amount to a variation of several hundred dollars depending on exactly what was done to the action.

 

[Pdvdh]

If you add extras, the sky is the limit. But for both hunting and competition rifles, the majority consensus has spoken. J E's cost opinion included blue-printing.
You must have a low percentage rifle build in mind.
Most full custom rifles involve a synthetic stock, custom action, bottom metal, muzzle brake, barrel, and trigger unit for components. And most gunsmiths charge much less than $2K to assemble these components into the finished product.
Do you commonly spend $2K for custom rifle build gunsmithing costs, or is your contention a hypothetical mental exercise?

 

[Pdvdh]

Many will not involve a muzzle brake. Deduct $125 in smith costs.

 

[J E Custom]

I use Pete at Precision Barrel Works. He finished my 28Nosler yesterday. I took him a new Rem 700 LR M40 in 300RUM w/ a new Bartlien SS 6.5 4B 8T and a Timney trigger. He chambered, crowned, fluted, and machined side port muzzle brake(intergrated) the barrel. Trued the receiver and bolt, bedded the action, installed the trigger( set at 2.5lbs), and pushed the throat. Also bead blasted the barrel to match the receiver. I will be driving to Hempstead tomorrow w/ $1125.00 to pick it up. This will be my 4th build from him. All have been flawless and 1/2-1/4 MOA once I've done the load development(300RUM and 28Nosler are in the load development stage now). 25-06 is 1/2 MOA and 264WM is 1/4 MOA.
I consider this very reasonable for the outstanding quality he produces.

This sounds about right for the work you had done. Keep in mind that most if not all rifles will have different requirements, so cost can vary.

But this debate has changed into what a rifle build "Should cost"
from if a master machinist is required to be a good/great smith,and I feel that sometimes, a person is paying for the name, Not the amount of machine cost. All other cost are generally up to the person having the rifle built Unless the smith has to buy the components and the cost will vary because some smiths mark up the components because it is their money spent to purchase these parts. (Some don't if the customer pays for them as he orders them).

I have worked on 6 to $ 8,000.00 dollar custom rifles that were not done correctly and wouldn't shoot and in some cases, all the work that was paid for was not done. so price does not always mean that the rifle is worth it.

Each smith has his price and feels He it worth it. so there will never be a consensus or a standard rate. some parts of building a quality rifle with what you have to work with cost more or less from one smith to another because of the time and pains he takes but he may turn around and be cheaper on other parts of the build so the total bill may be inline.

Bottom line is the buyer has control of cost and if gunsmiths charge to much, eventually he will not have much work. But if he does the work for pennies, he will also be out of work because he will want/have to cut corners and this practice will catch up with him.

So is $2000.00 dollars plus the cost of all the components to high for a standard rifle build ? I feel it is, but if the build comes with many elements, maybe not. Is a rifle like we shoot for long range worth $ 8,000.00 ? probably not.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[adam32]

Just buy a Savage and do all the "gunsmithing" yourself...problem solved.

 

[Edd]

If you add extras, the sky is the limit. But for both hunting and competition rifles, the majority consensus has spoken. J E's cost opinion included blue-printing.
You must have a low percentage rifle build in mind.
Most full custom rifles involve a synthetic stock, custom action, bottom metal, muzzle brake, barrel, and trigger unit for components. And most gunsmiths charge much less than $2K to assemble these components into the finished product.
Do you commonly spend $2K for custom rifle build gunsmithing costs, or is your contention a hypothetical mental exercise?

No, I don't spend $2000 for Gunsmith costs on a rifle. I currently have 4 rifles in progress. I send the action and barrel to a Gunsmith and have the chambering and threading done. My average Gunsmith cost per rifle will be about $600. That includes chambering, threading, reaming a seater die, and shipping for the round trip. If I were using a Remington 700 action, I could easily spend another $400 for action work.

I will do my own assembly. The parts being assembled are a long way from being ready to screw together. Every piece, and I mean every piece will likely need some massaging during assembly.