Took the advice here and.........

[Georgiashooter]

What brand and caliber rifle is it. I ask because most of the Remington 700's I've dealt with have severe locking lug issues with only one touching sometimes. I built a 260 AI on a Winchester push feed action and it wouldn't shoot less than 3/4". Lapped the lugs in and it will shoot 1/4 moa if i do my part. All rifles I do now get checked and trued. It's amazing what CNC machinery can do, but a new reciever face out by .009" ain't cutting it!!

 

[rcoody]

This may seem like a hijack but it is not my intent. It is to show the difference in factory rifles. I purchased a heavy barrel Savage .223. Regularly fired five shots in under half inch. A friend bought a heavy Remington .223. He couldn't get it to shoot any better than 3/4" for five shots and sent it to me. No matter what I did I could not do any better than he did and called to let him know.

He asked, "What would you do?" "I would sell it and get a Savage." He did. I fired the first three shots with my accuate load: 3/8". He fired the next five: 4/10".

What I'm trying to get at is sometime you need to get a new rifle.

My 6br is a savage. Target action, shilen prefit barrel and SSS benchrest stock. I like it because if i want a different cartridge i simply switch the barrel. Have a 6.5 creedmoor barrel l use on it too. A short range benchrest barrel coming soon. Just can't decide between the 6PPC and the 30BR

What i mean by the rabbit hole. This is the ultimate powder weighing system

 

[rcoody]

Just a savage

 

[CatShooter]

Keeping in mind all I own are 100% non-custom mass produced rifles, I have proven the equipment and tools I presently have and use are capable of producing very, very accurate reloads, any additional equipment or tools I invest in (especially ones costing at or above $100) I can only justify their expense if they can improve either the quality or consistency of my reloads.

While match dies will help (to the point of being necessary) in shooting a match level rifle, match dies will do nothing, to almost nothing, for an "over-the-counter" rifle.

It is not run-out that is the biggest problem, it is the chambering and throat that is the main cause of inaccuracy. In production rifles, these areas are not given the attention they need.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Low quality brass can add some run out, and neck turning can help to a certain extent, but if you use good loading practices and use high end brass such as lapua, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Make sure not to focus too hard on one thing when your trying to get the most out of a shooting system, for instance, now you will have some very high quality reloading tools and components, and if you do your side of it you will be producing high quality ammo. If you are still getting only .75" or larger 5 shot groups, and you want better accuracy, I highly doubt it's your ammunitions consistency to blame.

You said you have 100% factory rifles...I'll list a few important things to check on factory guns, and custom ones as well...

Good stress free bedding, with no contact on trigger/safety components or barrel

Good stiff stock, even with good bedding, a tupper ware stock is still not gonna help you out in a quest for accuracy

A high quality trigger, not all are created equal, and bad ones make it hard to get consistency

Properly torqued action/base/ring screws. Over/under torquing by a significant amount can cause issues

Scope base/rail bedding. This can cause some issues at times

Good quality optics. This is self explanatory...

Sometimes factory rifles just won't shoot that well and have flyers...

Proper bore condition. Is the rifle over fouled, or cleaned too much? Every barrel is different, my remington 700 22-250 with factory barrel would fall apart after 75-100 rounds and need cleaning, my Krieger chambered in .260 AI is on 220ish rounds fired since the last cleaning and my last group was a .4 MOA 5 shot group at 822 yards. And this is normal...

Are you using consistent form in your shooting? A change in head position, rifle hold, how firm/loose you hold the rifle, all these things and more can make a .25" impact change at 100 yards, making your .25" group a .5" group.

It's excellent that your improving your reloading tools and practices, it can only help!! But just remember, getting the most accuracy possible isn't just about one thing, you must be well rounded. If you spend 2,000 hours perfecting your reloading practices, 3,500 hours perfecting your shooting skill, but shoot a factory rifle, that may be the weak point if your looking for a consistent .25 MOA gun, or if you only spend 500 hours on your shooting, that may be the weak point.

Most of us have lives outside of shooting, and getting the most from ourselves is about proper time management, just make sure not to focus your time and money on one aspect too much and forget another important one. Sorry for getting off topic!!

^^^^ Good stuff here.

Enjoy your reloading and shooting. It is always good to look for improvement.

Steve

 

[RockyMtnMT]

While match dies will help (to the point of being necessary) in shooting a match level rifle, match dies will do nothing, to almost nothing, for an "over-the-counter" rifle.

It is not run-out that is the biggest problem, it is the chambering and throat that is the main cause of inaccuracy. In production rifles, these areas are not given the attention they need.

I agree with this as well. A well chambered rifle will make up for poor ammo. Or make it less important. Consistent vel becomes the challenge.

Steve

 

[blinderthanascope]

I made my own runout gauge with a few pcs of steel and a welder, with a gauge and magnets, can check any cartridge and it works great

 

[DartonJager]

While match dies will help (to the point of being necessary) in shooting a match level rifle, match dies will do nothing, to almost nothing, for an "over-the-counter" rifle.

It is not run-out that is the biggest problem, it is the chambering and throat that is the main cause of inaccuracy. In production rifles, these areas are not given the attention they need.

Catshooter, am I misinterpreting your above statement in you are saying run out in reloads does not have a significant impact on accuracy in a factory rifle?

I am at a loss some what because in a factory rifle (which is all I can afford at the present time) besides using as close to perfectly consistent ammunition as I can produce, combined with developing my shooting form to be as consistent as possible, how else does one achieve a high level of consistent and repeatable accuracy?

I am a huge proponent of if it aint broke don't mess with it, so based on that and the fact my present rifle is giving me 5 shot sub moa 100 yard groups I don't feel it wise at this point to have a smith perform any improvements to it until if and only IF once my abilities allow my to progress to longer ranges and I am unable to achieve and maintain accuracy near that of what I can do at shorter distances, do I think investing in upgrades like a better stock and having it glass bedded.

In short I am 100% confident at this point in my development the rifle is, (but not for long I hope) still considerably more accurate than my present shooting skills set.

In other words until I determine its the rifle and not my reloads or personal abilities preventing me from achieving my goals I think it best to leave the rifle alone at this point, and focus on developing my shooting skills combined with producing as consistent and near to flawless reloads and see how far those two (reasonably affordable) areas with in my control can take me to begin with.

Yours or anyone else thoughts?

 

[CatShooter]

CatShooter, am I misinterpreting your above statement in you are saying run out in reloads does not have a significant impact on accuracy in a factory rifle?

I am at a loss some what because in a factory rifle (which is all I can afford at the present time) besides using as close to perfectly consistent ammunition as I can produce, combined with developing my shooting form to be as consistent as possible, how else does one achieve a high level of consistent and repeatable accuracy?

I am a huge proponent of if it aint broke don't mess with it, so based on that and the fact my present rifle is giving me 5 shot sub moa 100 yard groups I don't feel it wise at this point to have a smith perform any improvements to it until if and only IF once my abilities allow my to progress to longer ranges and I am unable to achieve and maintain accuracy near that of what I can do at shorter distances, do I think investing in upgrades like a better stock and having it glass bedded.

In short I am 100% confident at this point in my development the rifle is, (but not for long I hope) still considerably more accurate than my present shooting skills set.

In other words until I determine its the rifle and not my reloads or personal abilities preventing me from achieving my goals I think it best to leave the rifle alone at this point, and focus on developing my shooting skills combined with producing as consistent and near to flawless reloads and see how far those two (reasonably affordable) areas with in my control can take me to begin with.

Yours or anyone else thoughts?

You are putting racing tyres on the family sedan, and expecting it to corner like a Ferrari.

In a $500 barrel, with a $350 fitting and chambering, then run-out will show "a little" difference.

Run-out is not the source of your "fliers".

Your rifle has so many other big problems, that improvements in run-out, or counting each grain of powder... will do nothing for you.

Save your money and get a proper barrel with a top smith to fit and chamber it - then get a set of Redding Comp dies (both comp dies, and the body dies), then start looking for small groups.It will not

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Go stretch your distance and see what you can do. You shoot well at 100. figure out your drops and go shoot to 800 or 1000. Have a spotter with you to help see what is going on. Or use a big paper target. Big rocks are great as you can see the impacts. Let er rip man.

Steve

 

[rcoody]

You are putting racing tyres on the family sedan, and expecting it to corner like a Ferrari.

In a $500 barrel, with a $350 fitting and chambering, then run-out will show "a little" difference.

Run-out is not the source of your "fliers".

Your rifle has so many other big problems, that improvements in run-out, or counting each grain of powder... will do nothing for you.

Save your money and get a proper barrel with a top smith to fit and chamber it - then get a set of Redding Comp dies (both comp dies, and the body dies), then start looking for small groups.It will not

Yep

As i have said previously. If you want to learn what works in reloading you have to have a rifle that is going to show you improvement. You can build yourself a savage rifle that will shoot groups like the ones below for less than $1000. That gun will tell you what you are doing wrong and.right.

 

[DartonJager]

Go stretch your distance and see what you can do. You shoot well at 100. figure out your drops and go shoot to 800 or 1000. Have a spotter with you to help see what is going on. Or use a big paper target. Big rocks are great as you can see the impacts. Let er rip man.

Steve

Thank you,
Will do.

 

[DartonJager]

Yep

As i have said previously. If you want to learn what works in reloading you have to have a rifle that is going to show you improvement. You can build yourself a savage rifle that will shoot groups like the ones below for less than $1000. That gun will tell you what you are doing wrong and.right.

Ok then, I can swing $1000, would you rcody mind to terribly much helping out a beginner in listing the components I would need to buy to build the rifle you suggested using a Savage action as the platform? I already have a very well respected rifle builder in my home state I would use to assemble the firearm.
If you wish you cam PM your responce to me.

Thank you,
Art Dirindin.

 

[rcoody]

Ok then, I can swing $1000, would you rcody mind to terribly much helping out a beginner in listing the components I would need to buy to build the rifle you suggested using a Savage action as the platform? I already have a very well respected rifle builder in my home state I would use to assemble the firearm.
If you wish you cam PM your responce to me.

Thank you,
Art Dirindin.

First savings. You don't need a gunsmith. It is really too bad. I just recently sold one with these.very components for $800. New owner on first range trip sent.me pics of .25 inch groups.

Savage target action is what i have but any savage action with the accutrigger will work. Shilen savage prefit barrel Northland shooters supply is a good source. any number of savage stocks to your liking the one in i have now is from sharpshooters supply

Simple do it yourself assembly. In fact that is much of the fun for me. Check out the savage forum classifieds. May find what you want there. Many very inexpensive savage rifles shoot great. I don't think much of their factory barrels though.