titanium
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Mark_in_utah
Well-Known Member
Titanium is used when weight is an issue. Pound for pound it's stronger than steel, hence less of it needs to be used to get the job done. It's a bugger to machine because it's so hard and strong.
Given that brakes don't weight much, and a titanium brake would cost an arm and a leg, to me it wouldn't be worth the hassles or the cost.
Given that brakes don't weight much, and a titanium brake would cost an arm and a leg, to me it wouldn't be worth the hassles or the cost.
Nighthawk
Well-Known Member
I don' know if any of you have watched the show, but the History Channel had a thing on Machine Tools and there was a new process of machining that uses electricity to machine the metal away. I guess the metal molecules are "eaten away" by the process. I wonder if that would be used for Titanium barrels where the barrel is all Titanium?
titanium is not the wonder metal people think it is.
it is a bitch to machine
and it is very cost prohibitive to use except when abosolutly needed.
a 1.25 inch by 36 inch long peice of Ti is 356 dollars. add in special tooling and a barrel would cost in the neighbor hood of 850 dollars. besides I dont think it would work very vell.
looking at the specs Ti would burst with a 44 mag charge. not good for rifle running 6K PSI
Most of the Ti used in like golf clubs is cast, it is cheaper that way.
it is a bitch to machine
and it is very cost prohibitive to use except when abosolutly needed.
a 1.25 inch by 36 inch long peice of Ti is 356 dollars. add in special tooling and a barrel would cost in the neighbor hood of 850 dollars. besides I dont think it would work very vell.
looking at the specs Ti would burst with a 44 mag charge. not good for rifle running 6K PSI
Most of the Ti used in like golf clubs is cast, it is cheaper that way.
ross spagrud
Active Member
There are numerous grades of Titanium
on the market and the stronger ones are
more than suitable for any hi pressure
firearm applications such as barrels or
actions.
In barrel applications the problem has always
been the difficulty in getting a proper
hole drilled and reamed. The reject rate
combined with the extreme cost of the material makes it a poor choice. Also, the
titanium barrels that were made did not last
as long as steel ones (accuracy).
I have been personally involved with the
construction of Titanium:
-Actions
-Muzzle brakes
-Rifle silencers
and have found it to be an excellent material
for these applications.
on the market and the stronger ones are
more than suitable for any hi pressure
firearm applications such as barrels or
actions.
In barrel applications the problem has always
been the difficulty in getting a proper
hole drilled and reamed. The reject rate
combined with the extreme cost of the material makes it a poor choice. Also, the
titanium barrels that were made did not last
as long as steel ones (accuracy).
I have been personally involved with the
construction of Titanium:
-Actions
-Muzzle brakes
-Rifle silencers
and have found it to be an excellent material
for these applications.
pure titanium as commercial grade T40 is just good for low stess parts and comestic parts , real strong "titanium" is the alloy TiAl4V wich is an alloy with Vanadium and can heat threated even with that
Ti6Al4V is strong not hard and galle when you use titanium on titanium as lugs in an action
that not really easy to machine
as new raw material cost is hight , I use mostly Titanium alloy take from aeraunotical scrap plant that a lot cheaper
I use only Titanium on accessory because that take nice finish ( grey titanium ) and that stainless alloy so no need to loos time in coating
for brake in use regular stainlees steel in 300 serial as 318 alloy , but regular 4140 heat threated for 35 HRC can do nice job
good shooting
DAN TEC
Ti6Al4V is strong not hard and galle when you use titanium on titanium as lugs in an action
that not really easy to machine
as new raw material cost is hight , I use mostly Titanium alloy take from aeraunotical scrap plant that a lot cheaper
I use only Titanium on accessory because that take nice finish ( grey titanium ) and that stainless alloy so no need to loos time in coating
for brake in use regular stainlees steel in 300 serial as 318 alloy , but regular 4140 heat threated for 35 HRC can do nice job
good shooting
DAN TEC
D
daveosok
Guest
John hate to break it to ya but it wont burst. The B-One bomber had nothing but Ti tubing running at 4000 psi and it was 4al6v alloy.
It will stand up to pressure very well.
I have worked with it a lot and have made some rather interesting parts with it.
Currently working on a 2.25 dia action made out of it.
It isnt any fun to machine I'll give ya that.
It will stand up to pressure very well.
I have worked with it a lot and have made some rather interesting parts with it.
Currently working on a 2.25 dia action made out of it.
It isnt any fun to machine I'll give ya that.
D
daveosok
Guest
NightHawk
If its what I'm thinking your talking about wire edm?
We have a wire edm and it cuts through anything that conducts electricity. Ti cuts a lot like Al does. One problme with edm machining is the haz area (heat effected zone)this is the area of metal that is brittle and needs to be either ground off or chemically removed as it will set up your piece to fail with micrograin structure cracks.
If its what I'm thinking your talking about wire edm?
We have a wire edm and it cuts through anything that conducts electricity. Ti cuts a lot like Al does. One problme with edm machining is the haz area (heat effected zone)this is the area of metal that is brittle and needs to be either ground off or chemically removed as it will set up your piece to fail with micrograin structure cracks.
Brent
Well-Known Member
Davosok,
Maybe you can clue me in on how one can get some ramps cut in the bolt lug abutments... converting a right hand AR-30 into a lefty?
I was told a gentlman on the east coast makes barrels with an EDM for the Contenders, a slow process, 8 hrs I think was stated. He does others too if you want a one time job and don't need a reamer later if you plan on setting the bbl back and doing it again. He charges about $150 I was told.
My smith, Dave, he was making a brake with Ti last month for a big boomer he was building a guy.
Maybe you can clue me in on how one can get some ramps cut in the bolt lug abutments... converting a right hand AR-30 into a lefty?
I was told a gentlman on the east coast makes barrels with an EDM for the Contenders, a slow process, 8 hrs I think was stated. He does others too if you want a one time job and don't need a reamer later if you plan on setting the bbl back and doing it again. He charges about $150 I was told.
My smith, Dave, he was making a brake with Ti last month for a big boomer he was building a guy.
D
daveosok
Guest
Brent
I would suggest a ram/sinker style edm for machining ramps.
We had an autofatage (sp?) machine which was used to stress relieve the tubing since Ti has a memory and wants to return to its orignal shape (when dealing with tubing that is) this machine would pressurise the tubing. We have taken 3/8ths lines up to 22,000 psi before bursting and that was with .049 wall thickness.
EDMing is by no means the fastest way to do anything it does take a long time but the accuracy is about as close as your going to get. Our machine is set right now to .00006 millinoths and has a repeatability of .00002. It can produce a 10~14 micro finish and if we get the .004 thou diamond guides for the wire I can produce a 3~4 microfinish.
Its a neat machine and very interesting to see what comes out of it.
[ 10-12-2003: Message edited by: daveosok ]
I would suggest a ram/sinker style edm for machining ramps.
We had an autofatage (sp?) machine which was used to stress relieve the tubing since Ti has a memory and wants to return to its orignal shape (when dealing with tubing that is) this machine would pressurise the tubing. We have taken 3/8ths lines up to 22,000 psi before bursting and that was with .049 wall thickness.
EDMing is by no means the fastest way to do anything it does take a long time but the accuracy is about as close as your going to get. Our machine is set right now to .00006 millinoths and has a repeatability of .00002. It can produce a 10~14 micro finish and if we get the .004 thou diamond guides for the wire I can produce a 3~4 microfinish.
Its a neat machine and very interesting to see what comes out of it.
[ 10-12-2003: Message edited by: daveosok ]
Brent
Well-Known Member
Thanks Daveosok. Can you cut the ramps or know someone who would be set up to do it?
D
daveosok
Guest
Brent
I'd really need to see a print of what your talking about but think I have an idea.
The wire edm wont cut blind areas, think of a bandsaw only the cutting device is non-resuable.
The machine is a Mitsubishi FX30 their new model is the CA30 which is basically the same machine but can feed the wire in about 15 seconds whereas ours has to drain the tank and then wire itself.
John
A while back I could have scheduled a tour but after sept 11th kinda hard now sorry dude.
I'd really need to see a print of what your talking about but think I have an idea.
The wire edm wont cut blind areas, think of a bandsaw only the cutting device is non-resuable.
The machine is a Mitsubishi FX30 their new model is the CA30 which is basically the same machine but can feed the wire in about 15 seconds whereas ours has to drain the tank and then wire itself.
John
A while back I could have scheduled a tour but after sept 11th kinda hard now sorry dude.
Brent
Well-Known Member
You're right, the ramps are about the exact same thing as on a Remington 700, and a wire EDM won't work for that. I was thinking you had the other type EDM that they do chambers and other stuff like that with, forget what that type's called tho.
