The reason we anneal brass cases.

[tribb]

The issue of how long is based on how much you size the brass and how hot you load them.
Some anneal every time they fire them so the bullet grip is consistently the same. This method
prevents any shift in POI. If your yardage is held to 2 or 300 yards it will be hard to see much difference in impacts. normally the Human factor is the difference.

I prefer to do this on the long range rifle cartridges and anneal every second or third firing on the less intense cartridges, or when one throws a flier. Fliers are normally shooter error unless you call a great shot and it goes out of the group anyway. Annealing and neck turning tends to eliminate this by improving the consistency of the bullet grip ,and this helps in accuracy. (Especially at long ranges.)

If you are happy with 1 MOA accuracy, much of this is not necessary. if you want or need 1/2 MOA accuracy, then it helps but if you want 1/4 MOA or less I feel it is a must.

Case prep is an evolutionary process that takes time and patients and is developed over time as the shooter gets better and demands better accuracy. So carry these process as far as you need or want, then relax and enjoy.

J E CUSTOM

Well said sir

 

[oneeyejohn]

Look at the Bench Source Annealer user manual on line and then you will know if you need to anneal. You don't have to buy the annealer to read the instructions.

 

[tribb]

Not to argue, but I hear this all the time and for some it may be true. My philosophy is simple, the more you do to make everything consistent the better your accuracy. If you reach the point that you are satisfied then don't worry about any more accuracy. I don't have a combined reloading experience of 100 years, Just 60 years of my own successes and failures, and went from 1 MOA to best group for a hunting rifle of .034 thousandths by doing everything I could for consistency. It is not the norm to have everything shoot this well and excepting that the rifle will out shoot me gives me comfort and confidence, as a rifle builder I cant ever get the attitude that 'It'll be ok' or 'that's close enough' or I'm done.

Everyone has their accuracy standard and mine is to try and beat the best I have ever done.
Sorry, but nothing worthwhile is a waste of time in my opinion as long as there is room for improvement. If I ever shoot a 1 bullet diameter group .0000, I may stop trying but with more than one rifle I doubt it.

J E CUSTOM

Yep

 

[esshup]

Wooowzerz,
I think a few folks have maybe touched on this a bit without actually bringing it up,
I'm talking about the arbor press with a gauge.
The other day I got the rare chance to search and study things, this time it was this very subject towards the end of my search/study. Arbor presses themselves are not that expensive and have many more advantages. But what I haven't found yet is, how much does a pressure gauge setup that would be needed cost ?
I am a " feel" type fellow with reloading, but am worried that arthritis and carpal issues may hinder my desicions.

Here's what you are asking about... I'm sure there are more out there.

https://kmshooting.com/product/arborpressbuilder/

One thing that I think people are forgetting about is the condition of the inside of the neck. I saw my SD figures drop when I switched from using Mica as a lube to using powdered graphite. A friend uses Imperial Sizing lube on a Q-tip to lube the inside of his necks before using an expander ball. Then of course he cleans the inside/outside of the case after resizing.

 

[Hugnot]

Looking at stuff like this would cause me to modify my approach using my cheapo setup. Should the brass necks be hard and have inconsistent spring back how can neck tension be uniform?

Deformation and Annealing of Cartridge Brass (vacaero.com)

Quote from above:

"Cold working increases the hardness of the alloy dramatically; a 400% increase was obtained going from the fully annealed condition to a 70% reduction in thickness"

Apparently thickness refers to the crystal . Annealing every 3-4 cycles sounds good.

 

[Hugnot]

Here's what you are asking about... I'm sure there are more out there.

https://kmshooting.com/product/arborpressbuilder/

One thing that I think people are forgetting about is the condition of the inside of the neck. I saw my SD figures drop when I switched from using Mica as a lube to using powdered graphite. A friend uses Imperial Sizing lube on a Q-tip to lube the inside of his necks before using an expander ball. Then of course he cleans the inside/outside of the case after resizing.

This might affect or reduce cold welding.

 

[esshup]

This might affect or reduce cold welding.

I noticed that on some loaded rounds that were 2-3 years old when I had to pull bullets with a collet puller. Force required to get the bullets out were all over the place. Those cases were prepped with Mica.

 

[Hugnot]

I noticed that on some loaded rounds that were 2-3 years old when I had to pull bullets with a collet puller. Force required to get the bullets out were all over the place. Those cases were prepped with Mica.

I have noticed this effect in less than 4 months. I recently pulled some bullets from .22-.250 that were loaded into new brass and had no issues after 4 years. In other situations, I had to run the ammo thru a seat die to break the cold weld and heard and felt a noticeable POP when the bullets were seated some .025 deeper into the case. I don't know for sure what would reduce this. I plan to spin a stainless brush inside case mouths to see what happens. Reading stuff suggests cold welding is more likely to occur when bullets and brass contacts are clean but my experience shows different. Like glued in, replacing neck tension. Thanks for the response.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

I've done extensive tests over the years and am fortunate enough to be able to test brass hardness and you are correct, The drill and socket works just fine if done correctly, I have found that the dark room soft orange glow yields 65-68HV which is almost what new brass is depending on the brand, as you said consistency is the key

I just started using the drill and socket this week and looks like I'm getting it pretty close.
Been reloading about 30 yrs and this my first time annealing brass.
My gunsmith here in Albuquerque recommended that I try it (drill & socket).... Glad I did.
I don't mind spending the $$$ but would rather not if I don't have to.

 

[ButterBean]

I just started using the drill and socket this week and looks like I'm getting it pretty close.
Been reloading about 30 yrs and this my first time annealing brass.
My gunsmith here in Albuquerque recommended that I try it (drill & socket).... Glad I did.
I don't mind spending the $$$ but would rather not if I don't have to.

If you have the funds the machines are nice but definitely not necessary

 

[oneeyejohn]

Look at the Bench Source Annealer user manual on line and then you will know if you need to anneal. You don't have to buy the annealer to read the instructions.

Having a good understanding of what annealing does Metallurgically is important and the frequency of annealing is very important so this is a good explanation of what and why. It is a little long, but for a good understanding of the process I think it is worth watching.

If you are a reloader, it has good points to know.



J E CUSTOM

Thanks J E Custom very informative. David

 

[venatic]

I am currently shooting 30-06 ammo reloaded in 1972.... I am sure it's cold welded but it still shoots fine.

 

[J E Custom]

Everyone is making to big of an issue about the cost, and don't realize that good ammo will save you money and frustration when poor shots/groups plague you.

We dint have to buy the most expensive Annealer to get a good anneal. you just have to be consistent in what ever process you use. I built mine out of spare parts that was on hand to try and eliminate the Human factor. I was not very consistent with several methods I tried and with a Brinell Tester at hand, was able to find my short comings. So I went with something that eliminated the Human factor of timing and had to work at improving the set up for consistent results.

I only used Templaq to set the time and then ran the brass clean and polished to view and test the results. It is hard to hit the temperature on the head but the consistent annealing was greatly improved. Not everyone has access to a Brinell tester but you can be consistent.

The expensive machines will only cost more, they wont do any better that a less expensive unit set up correctly.

Get/use what you can, and work at getting consistency of results.

J E CUSTOM

 

[esshup]

^^^ That's what I use the Templaq for also. If you look at what brass costs for a .338 Lapua, then the additional costs associated with making it into a 7mm Allen Magnum, then the cost of any annealing equipment is quickly returned.

As for the cold or age welding, I wonder if that problem is still there if Moly bullets were used? I don't shoot them, so there is no way I can test it.

Like all the other things in this game, the further you stretch your distance, the little things that aren't consistent are more apparent.