Surprise - surprise - surprise

[asd9055]

I gave the borescope to a friend with the proviso that if I needed to use it, I could. I was afraid that if I had it in the house, I might be tempted to use it again.

Borescopes are a must when you are buying a used rifle, before you buy. After that, I only use it if I start having problems.

 

[asd9055]

Well, now you've gone and done it……my secret is out! Cleaning the bore is a mental exercise that may harm your groups…..but, makes you feel good! memtb

If shining metal is good, why do you need "fouling" shots?

 

[victor3ranger]

Getting a borescope just provided something else to obsess about. And I lost sleep over it. I was and still am a Hoppes #9 guy. I shot my first rifle in 1968. My old model 700 in 30-06 never knew what a borescope was until one day. The bore looked like the dirt floor of a wild-west saloon. A lot of work getting rid of the carbon. I never was able to get a clean patch out of it using Butch's. I decided I'd rather shoot it than clean it to death. Off to the range with known 0.5" capable ammo and began producing 1.5" groups. I logged all my results and in the end, found that at about every 10 shots the group tightened up until after 55 rounds I was back to consistent 0.5" groups. After that session, I ran several Hoppes #9 patches through it and fired on the next range visit, still 0.5". So that rifle likes to be fouled. After hunting season I clean it and put it in the safe. A month before the next season I take it out, run a dry patch through it and fire a 3-shot group to make sure it is still good then off to the woods. I have a Rem model 7 in .243win that used to foul horribly. After a range session, or groundhog session I nearly had to take it in the shower with me. But it stayed accurate enough to dispatch groundhogs at 300 yards. I loaded with IMR3031. Apparently at some point after Hercules sold out the formulation was changed. That's when the fouling started. The Model 7 has a short barrel. Accuracy became inconsistent. A reader on this forum advised trying I4350 35gr and that cured everything, accuracy, and consistency came back and the rifle stayed a lot cleaner.

My cousin is a absolute clean freak and he would come over and sight in his three hunting rifles, we would get them dialed in perfect and he would take them home. During the season opening he would shoot at a deer and usually not hit right where he was aiming.
When that would happen around noon of that day we would shoot to confirm his zero. Every time it was not grouping like it was when he left. We would get it dialed back in. This happened for about 3 years in a row until I figured out what was happening. He would take it home and spend hours cleaning the bore
It took me two more years to convince him to stop doing that

 

[Rosebud]

drill and a ss brush

Actually saw a smith buster video where a GS did just that. Except he used a bronze brush. Flexible steel rod and cordless drill. Up and down the barrel. Took photo before and after. No damage could be seen. Barrel was very clean.

 

[Hydra6]

For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12...

www.snipershide.com

Owner of Bartlein barrels regularly posts about barrels damaged by cleaning.

 

[Grey Goast]

There is nothing like waking up to the sound of thunder the fresh smell of burnt motor oil in the air and a good Tin of java in your hand with atf fluid still dripping from the bottom of the Tin and some asxxxole yelling at you wrong Tin.

 

[PBramble]

For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12...

www.snipershide.com

Owner of Bartlein barrels regularly posts about barrels damaged by cleaning.

Yeah, that's Frank. He's seen more barrels damaged by cleaning improperly but he's in the market to sell you a new one. I don't hold any grudges against him for his opinion. There's more than one way to skin a cat and I don't like having to pull a barrel, fill it with cleaner, let it sit, then use nylon brushes for hours on end. And contrary to popular belief, nylon is hard on steel too. You should have seen some of the steel rollers at DuPont when nylin sheets were run across them all day. Wallow them right out. I actually don't clean mine til accuracy drops off.

 

[Benny119]

For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12...

www.snipershide.com

Owner of Bartlein barrels regularly posts about barrels damaged by cleaning.

This is about using abrasives. You should only use abrasives if necessary. Generally for stubborn carbon. The good old hoppes or wipeout will not harm a barrel.

Most damage caused during cleaning is people not using bore guides or poor quality cleaning rods/jags/brushes…..and to much abrasives

 

[Hydra6]

This is about using abrasives. You should only use abrasives if necessary. Generally for stubborn carbon. The good old hoppes or wipeout will not harm a barrel.

Most damage caused during cleaning is people not using bore guides or poor quality cleaning rods/jags/brushes…..and to much abrasives

Cleaned 10-12 times with 800 rounds and barrel is toast. Too many cleanings ruined barrel not shooting

"Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12 times from what the shooter told us."

 

[Benny119]

My general cleaning starts with hoppes or kg carbon remover. When the majority of loose crud comes out I patch with alcohol and switch to using wipeout until all copper is removed (just because this is much quicker than anything else I've used on copper). Then patch with alcohol again and attack carbon with hoppes or kg and brass brush. If needed I use abrasives to finish.

I also spin a chamber brush with bore cleaner in the chamber to go after carbon ring while cleaning the bore

All steps verified with a borescope.

In my opinion custom rifles seem to shoot better with less fouling. Factory rifles generally like more fouling.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I'm one of those clean freaks who just has to clean his rifle bores after every session. I'll typically run 30-40 rounds in each rifle while working up loads. I use BoreTech Eliminator, Carbon Out and CU+2. I let the solvents work in the bore as I do other chores. It's not unusual to have the rifles in the cleaning racks for 2 days as I run wet patches and bore brushes down intermittently. My routine helps to prevent fouling build-up of any kind.

The other day, I was shooting a heavy bench rifle in 6.5x284. It was shooting under 2" at 400yds, but this rifle is (was) capable of shooting groups 1/2 that size. I was wondering if the bore hadn't just seen a better day. The rifle was built for shooting groundhogs out past 1,000yds.

Even though I own a Tesla bore scope, I rarely take it out. Mostly, I just rely on my cleaning routine to ensure that the bore is clean. When patches can't produce any more blue/green/black, it's clean. However, yesterday I decided to take out the ol' Tesla and have a look. SURPRISE - there was a black carbon ring right up front and black streaks that ran down the bore. Carbon was visible on the lands and in-between. If that wasn't bad enough, copper was visible for nearly half the length of the barrel!

I was absolutely shocked to see how fouled the bore was considering that it was thoroughly cleaned on a regular basis and that the resulting patches were essentially white as they left the muzzle. I'll be using the Tesla a lot more after my cleaning sessions.

It took nothing short of a Herculean effort to get all the fouling off the steel. I used a trio of methods; Carbon Out soaks, Flitz and a stiff bronze brush, to actually get 98% of the junk out.

Try Sharp Shoot Accelerator and Sharp Shoot Patch out. Less hassle, less work. Follow directions exactly, don't use indoors unless you have LOTS and LOTS of fresh air ventilation!

 

[DoneNOut]

Borescopes can shock the mind and senses of the new users ignorant of what constitutes a healthy bore. I know, I saw me do it too when I first started. Phrases like, "Looks like a sewer pipe" were uttered...LOL.

Now that I know how to analyze a barrel, the borescope is a most pivotal tool in cleaning. I got to learn what cleaning products and practices worked better than others.

I ask anybody using more than limited number passes with a bronze brush, those who are using abrasives, and to those using drills in a bore to STOP!

I learned to let the chemicals do 90% of the cleaning of the bores. I blew through a lot of money testing a lot of solvents. I found there wasn't a solvent either intended for carbon or copper that didn't at least do a little of what it was claimed. Usually, it was the amount of time I let the solvent sit and eat the bad stuff.

Cliff notes version - I funneled my cleaning routine to Wipeout Accelerator in combination with Shooter's Choice Foam bore cleaner. Wipeout foam cleaner just isn't as good as Shooter's Choice foam.

1. Wet the bore with accelerator and then foam with Shooter's choice. Let the combination sit 3hrs.
2. Patch bore with alcohol, followed by alcohol soaked bronze brush 10 passes.
3. Patch dry. Borescope to check fouling level. Repeat till copper fouling gone. (I only ever needed one more)
4. Use a slightly larger caliber brush soaked in alcohol to clean carbon ring area of chamber. Patch dry.

I only mentioned copper and not carbon because I've experienced fantastic accuracy results with this routine. I don't think it necessary to go after carbon any harder than what this process does to clean it. I am of the opinion that there is a difference between hard carbon build up vs carbon staining of the metal.

 

[Benny119]

Cleaned 10-12 times with 800 rounds and barrel is toast. Too many cleanings ruined barrel not shooting

"Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12 times from what the shooter told us."

Look in the link you posted. Abrasives is in the description.

User cleaned rifle 10-12 times using ThorroClean which has abrasives included in the mix.

 

[DoneNOut]

Look in the link you posted. Abrasives is in the description.

User cleaned rifle 10-12 times using ThorroClean which has abrasives included in the mix.

Oh boy. ThorroClean is an aggressive cleaner and process. I think Rem 40X cleaner has diatomaceous earth in it for abrasive too.