sticky bolt regardless of what happens.

[86bowhunter]

So here's the deal.

I bought a 338 LM off a guy that was built off a surgeon action with a broughton barrel and manners stock. In a nutshell the guy got in a bind for money sold it for a price too good to pass up.

After 300rds of test loads I didn't get the results anywhere near what they should be. The chamber had an ungodly long throat so rather than put a new barrel on I op-ed to have the chamber re-cut.

Got the chamber cut by a guy that has always done good work. Did everything as usual and first rattle out the box I have problems. An excessively sticky bolt.

Loaded round - sticky before it closes and have to beat it open. (without being fired)
After being fired - have to beat it open to get the fired case out.
An empty fired case on this chamber - sticky before closing and beat it open to get it out.


Starting to get the idea?

First thought was high pressure but I dropped the charge significantly and still the same result.
Zero high pressure, chamber is clean, no visible flaws. The fired cases are within spec (ie no unusual or excessive expansion)

Only thing I have left to check is the head spacing but need to get a gauge first.


Anyone ever have a similar problem or thoughts on what else might cause this?

 

[Hired Gun]

Try some new brass. I suspect the old chamber was a little large at the web and your full length dies will not size that far back. New brass should fix it.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Try some new brass. I suspect the old chamber was a little large at the web and your full length dies will not size that far back. New brass should fix it.

Agreed. I had the same thing with a 300 Weatherby I'm loading for. I figured it out by using a Sharpie to color all over the case to find where it was binding.

I used the Larry Willis collet die to resize the body of the cartridge, and they work fine now. He doesn't list the 338 LM on his page, but I'm sure he would let you know if it will work.

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment

 

[FearNoWind]

Agree that testing first with some new unfired brass is the next step. But I'm surprised, if the chamber is indeed that tight along the body of the case, that you haven't noticed some pretty significant abrasion on the brass. Interested in what the results of the new unfired brass reveal.

 

[86bowhunter]

I'll try some new brass but if that were the case why would cases that have already been fired in this chamber continue to stick?
You would think that the brass on the old chamber would form to the new chamber and not stick anymore.

 

[Dr. Vette]

It's a cheap test to take a Sharpie and "paint" a piece of brass, then run it in and out of the chamber. It will tell you a lot as to why it's happening. There may be a chamber issue as well causing your problem.

If you want, isopropyl alcohol will remove the Sharpie color when you're done.

 

[FearNoWind]

I'll try some new brass but if that were the case why would cases that have already been fired in this chamber continue to stick?
You would think that the brass on the old chamber would form to the new chamber and not stick anymore.

That's a good question. Your comment "Got the chamber cut by a guy that has always done good work. Did everything as usual and first rattle out the box I have problems. An excessively sticky bolt." assumes that the chamber was re-cut so we don't know what he actually did in the process. We also don't know if your fired brass was run through the FL resizing die before you tried to chamber it, if your dies are properly sized for the chamber (some builds require custom dies) or how much the head space might have changed with the chamber cut.
What you describe sounds very much like a head space problem - but it could be something else.
This is apparently a custom built rifle which means the reamer used by the original builder is an unknown element in the equation. Some cut tight chambers, some cut to SAMMI specs., some get a little sloppy. You have a Surgeon action which, IMO, is pretty much top of the line. So I think we can eliminate that as having any influence in your problem.
The sharpie test that Doc suggested often provides reliable basic data that we can work with using the process of elimination.

 

[86bowhunter]

Thanks for the input guys.
I'll try the sharpie test tomorrow then some new brass and if that doesn't work then the only thing left*to be the cause is a error on the gunsmiths part.

I was told the reamer used to cut the new chamber was SAMMI and you're right the reamer to the previous chamber is unknown.

 

[86bowhunter]

Oh and just to clarify. Then the new chamber was cut I lost a inch and a half off the barrel. The threads were cut off to the shoulder and new threads cut to ensure that the old chamber would be completely removed. So there shouldn't be any issue because of reamer size.

 

[86bowhunter]

Well I did the sharpie test with a case not fired on this chamber and with a case fired on this chamber.

The case not fired on this chamber didn't even go in far enough to allow the bolt to even begin to close. It had even contact throughout the body of the casing but no hard contact in a given area.

The case that was fired on this chamber allowed the bolt to close but under force. Took a rubber mallet to get it out tho. The only contact this case had was on the body of the case approximately a quarter of an inch up from the head of the case. It was easily noticed all the way around.

I tried to add a picture but it won't let me upload one from my phone.


Next thing I'm going to do is get a box of factory ammo and see what happens there before I buy $250 worth of brass.

 

[Hired Gun]

The case not fired in this chamber; was this a new brass or previously fired in the old chamber and then resized? Your findings so far are consistent with dimensionally oversized brass. It will be tight 1/4" to 3/8" above the base of the case. This is where regular full length dies will not resize. If it goes in tight and you fire it will not make it smaller. Having to coax it open with a mallet is to be expected. My Stiller action will not extract mine. I have to tap it out with a brass rod.

I feel your pain. I had a Remington MLR rifle in 338LM and could never get it to shoot. I then built myself a full custom using the PTG 338LM Match chamber and it does the exact same thing when I try to use the brass fired in the Remington. At over $250 a hundred I too am reluctant to toss the brass. I have tried about 5 different full length dies trying to restore this brass. The only thing left will be a Larry Willis type die that Dr. Vette mentioned.

 

[J E Custom]

I think your Idea of buying a box of factory ammo and testing it is a good one.

Most factory ammo is sized with a small base die dimension so it will shoot in almost any action.

I would remove the firing pin just so you don't fire a really tight round in it. "Note" close the bolt slowly and if the bolt doesn't close, don't force it.

If the factory stuff doesn't fit. you have a very tight chamber, or a tight neck, or not enough head space.

If the factory stuff fits, then you need to full length size all of your brass until it fits your chamber.
and after sizing is complete load a round with a bullet and powder (Still with the firing pin removed
to make sure it will chamber.

If it chambers, measure the case neck and keep that dimension. after firing it should be .004 to .006 larger than the loaded dimension to give it enough neck clearance. some look for .003
after firing but you have to turn the necks to make sure that they remain true to expand .003.

There are a lot of good suggestions and this is just more to keep you safe.

Something is definitely wrong and you need to find out what before you continue.

Hope this helps

J E CUSTOM

 

[Dr. Vette]

If the factory stuff fits, then you need to full length size all of your brass until it fits your chamber.

J E CUSTOM

JE,

I tried that with the 300 Wby brass that I had, and never could get it to fit. The only thing that worked was the Willis collet die, which surprised me.

Just an FYI.

 

[J E Custom]

JE,

I tried that with the 300 Wby brass that I had, and never could get it to fit. The only thing that worked was the Willis collet die, which surprised me.

Just an FYI.

Hornady makes a new dimension die that is adjustable to a small base die dimension and the ones I have tried, work well. it is hard to find small base dies any more. and for the semi autoes they work very well when a case needs to be smaller than SAMME spec.

J E CUSTOM