starting to hate reloading

[foreign]

well im struggling here. starting to think that i simply just cant shoot. wish i had a known accurate gun of someones to try to see if it is me.
i have a .223 savage action aftermarket trueflite barrel in 24" silencer, choate varmint stock rifle basics trigger at 300grms and a vortex viper scope.
im loading 80gr berger bullets with 24.9gr varget, remi 7.5 primer and remi brass
at 100 i can usually get most of the rounds touching, move out to 365m and the groups open up to over 5 inchs. the extreme spread is around 50 fps for 10 shots. is the extreme spread the cause of my problems?
i also have a remi 700 with burris fullfield 2 4.5X14 trying to shoot 175gr bergers and the spread at 365 is up to 10 inch.
really getting me annoyed
how much could this also be caused bu runout. im having issues with that to. sometimes a round will be as much as .25milimeters run out.
some help would be much appreciated

 

[JARHEAD1371]

The first thing I would check is how you measure your powder. Do you weigh every one? Is how you measure it the exact same way each time?

I would imagine the Berger's are to blame here. I quit trying to work up a load with them because I was getting very similar results, but not as extreme as you. I tried several different powders and many many seating depths in vain. I switched to the 162 A-max loaded to the lands and problem solved.

Just try not to let it get you down too much.

 

[foreign]

hey jarhead i do weigh every load. i weigh brass. ans even have fulled them with water and weighed that.
i have some 168gr amax that im going to do more extensive loading with soon. i did some brief stuff at 100m and they wernt as tight as the bergers.
hmmmm annoying really

 

[BountyHunter]

what is the barrel twist?

BH

 

[foreign]

twist is 1 in 8.
took the 7wsm out this arvo and printed 2 inch group at 300m after one ladder and then picking a load out of that and loading up 8 rounds. so it seems that i can shoot ok.

 

[flashhole]

Sounds like in both guns you are shooting heavy for caliber bullets. Your guns may not be able to stabilize them properly. The first thing I would try is a lighter bullet.

 

[justgoto]

twist is 1 in 8.
took the 7wsm out this arvo and printed 2 inch group at 300m after one ladder and then picking a load out of that and loading up 8 rounds. so it seems that i can shoot ok.

And it seems you can reload.

Ask yourself, "What did I do right there?" and I bet the answers will solve your problems.

 

[DANNY-L]

I use 26gr.varget in my mini 14 and for a mini I had desent groups of 1" or so useing sierra 69gr match and cci400 also works good with sierra 65gr gameking.I tried rem.bench rest primers thinking I may get better groups but it opened up to 2' or slightly more. So if your not useing standard small rifle primers give them a try. I also lost accuracy by crimping so I increased neck tension and that also helped. My col is 2.260 my mini is a 1-9 twist

 

[J E Custom]

well im struggling here. starting to think that i simply just cant shoot. wish i had a known accurate gun of someones to try to see if it is me.
i have a .223 savage action aftermarket trueflite barrel in 24" silencer, choate varmint stock rifle basics trigger at 300grms and a vortex viper scope.
im loading 80gr berger bullets with 24.9gr varget, remi 7.5 primer and remi brass
at 100 i can usually get most of the rounds touching, move out to 365m and the groups open up to over 5 inchs. the extreme spread is around 50 fps for 10 shots. is the extreme spread the cause of my problems?
i also have a remi 700 with burris fullfield 2 4.5X14 trying to shoot 175gr bergers and the spread at 365 is up to 10 inch.
really getting me annoyed
how much could this also be caused bu runout. im having issues with that to. sometimes a round will be as much as .25milimeters run out.
some help would be much appreciated

We have all been there and sometimes you just have to step back and start all over.

I use the process of elimination when working up loads that seems to save a lot of time
and components. This is the process.= I start by choosing the bullet weight I want to use,
Based on twist rate I will normally not go light but also no go with the heaviest bullet ether.
(For the 223 I started with 60 to 65 grains).

Then I will choose the powder that gives me 98% case density at the listed Max.

Use the listed primer that works with this load and begin 1 grain off the Max (For large cases
I start 2 to 3 grains less).

Load 3 of each loads and start shooting through a chronagraph. clean after each test group
for consistency.

With the very small bullets the SDs And ESs will be higher than they would be with big bores
so don't get alarmed is you cant get into single digits with the 223. I am very happy if I get
12 to 15ft/sec.

Once you have a load with good SDs then look at bullets. Low SDs tell you that you have a
good powder, primer,case and bullet weight combination for your rifles harmonics. also If
your loading process is good.

Now to the bullets,= I have found that some barrels just don't like certain brands/types
of bullets so I never try to build arround one bullet.

So you now have a good load and need to work on accuracy. Try different bullets of the
same weight as your test bullet and see which one it seems to like best. armed with this
information I then start adjusting bullet seating to the lands for final accuracy.

This process normally takes less than 30 rounds and some times 15 to 20 because you
are tailoring your loads to the rifle. It may sound complicated but it isn't.

There are other methods but this works best for me and I don't have to spend 2 or 300
rounds to find a good load.

PS: Always make one change only each test load or you will mask a potential winner.

I hope this helps !

J E CUSTOM

 

[Trickymissfit]

well im struggling here. starting to think that i simply just cant shoot. wish i had a known accurate gun of someones to try to see if it is me.
i have a .223 savage action aftermarket trueflite barrel in 24" silencer, choate varmint stock rifle basics trigger at 300grms and a vortex viper scope.
im loading 80gr berger bullets with 24.9gr varget, remi 7.5 primer and remi brass
at 100 i can usually get most of the rounds touching, move out to 365m and the groups open up to over 5 inchs. the extreme spread is around 50 fps for 10 shots. is the extreme spread the cause of my problems?
i also have a remi 700 with burris fullfield 2 4.5X14 trying to shoot 175gr bergers and the spread at 365 is up to 10 inch.
really getting me annoyed
how much could this also be caused bu runout. im having issues with that to. sometimes a round will be as much as .25milimeters run out.
some help would be much appreciated

I think your running out of steam down range. The 80 grain Berger bullet is a VLD class bullet, and you need about 180K rpm to staballize it on impact, let alone during it's flight path. I think I'd hunt up something different for powder. Or maybe drop back to the 70 grain Berger VLD at a near max load.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

We have all been there and sometimes you just have to step back and start all over.

I use the process of elimination when working up loads that seems to save a lot of time
and components. This is the process.= I start by choosing the bullet weight I want to use,
Based on twist rate I will normally not go light but also no go with the heaviest bullet ether.
(For the 223 I started with 60 to 65 grains).

Then I will choose the powder that gives me 98% case density at the listed Max.

Use the listed primer that works with this load and begin 1 grain off the Max (For large cases
I start 2 to 3 grains less).

Load 3 of each loads and start shooting through a chronagraph. clean after each test group
for consistency.

With the very small bullets the SDs And ESs will be higher than they would be with big bores
so don't get alarmed is you cant get into single digits with the 223. I am very happy if I get
12 to 15ft/sec.

Once you have a load with good SDs then look at bullets. Low SDs tell you that you have a
good powder, primer,case and bullet weight combination for your rifles harmonics. also If
your loading process is good.

Now to the bullets,= I have found that some barrels just don't like certain brands/types
of bullets so I never try to build arround one bullet.

So you now have a good load and need to work on accuracy. Try different bullets of the
same weight as your test bullet and see which one it seems to like best. armed with this
information I then start adjusting bullet seating to the lands for final accuracy.

This process normally takes less than 30 rounds and some times 15 to 20 because you
are tailoring your loads to the rifle. It may sound complicated but it isn't.

There are other methods but this works best for me and I don't have to spend 2 or 300
rounds to find a good load.

PS: Always make one change only each test load or you will mask a potential winner.

I hope this helps !

J E CUSTOM

I agree 100%. I think I'd try the 64 grain Berger with RL15 powder at about 2950fps. Seat the bullet a couple thousandths off the lands and experiment from there. I've lost a lot of hair getting VLD and the LD's to shoot right.
gary

 

[boomtube]

"starting to hate reloading"

Then it's time to quit.

 

[jlamb]

I agree with Jarhead - Bergers are to blame. I really want to like them, they just don't shoot in any of my rifles.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I agree with Jarhead - Bergers are to blame. I really want to like them, they just don't shoot in any of my rifles.

Bergers are a very finicky bullet to work with, and what works well in another bullet brand won't cut it with them. But on the otherhand your playing with VLD's, and all of them can be a nightmare to make work. I've never messed with .223 VLD's, but have done a good bit of work with the 6mm bullets. My finding were that they liked a longer neck length, and a short throat with about one to one and one half degree of throat angle. Also the .223 case just dosn't present enough power to get the job done in the very heavy low drag bullets. Run the ballistics on the load and calculate the the rpms in 100 yard increments. You maybe surprised
gary