Sig BDX and kilo-abs

[cohunt]

so I have been seeing these bdx advertised in catalogs and magazines lately and have a few questions

so the new BDX is a scope/range finder/ app combo that lights up a specific aim point inside the scope for distance/wind hold over

the ABS is just the range finder/app/wind meter and it tells you what to dial on your standard scope (has been out for a while)

does the kilo2400abs bluetooth link to any of the sig scopes for a later date "upgrade"?

what shooting distance would you consider this a worthwhile tool to start using?

how is the glass in the sierra sig electro scopes? (the ones that will link with the ranging system)

are these a worthwhile tool, or just a high priced toy to stay on the range to impress your buddy?

 

[cohunt]

well, since no replies here I contacted sig---the new BDX system (kilo/bdx range finders and sierra scopes) will NOT link to the standard kilo abs range finder

the new sierra scopes will only link to the new Kilo bdx range finders

anyone actually look through one of the sierra scopes? is the glass decent? has anyone received them yet or all they all still on back order? they seem like a "mid range" scope but are touting them for lng range--though they do say the system is limited to 800 yards

only reviews of the bdx system I have found are from gun rags and I sometimes think they are biased ---can anyone point me to a "non gun magazine" review of the bdx system if they know of one?---thanks

 

[mhamlin]

well, since no replies here I contacted sig---the new BDX system (kilo/bdx range finders and sierra scopes) will NOT link to the standard kilo abs range finder

the new sierra scopes will only link to the new Kilo bdx range finders

anyone actually look through one of the sierra scopes? is the glass decent? has anyone received them yet or all they all still on back order? they seem like a "mid range" scope but are touting them for lng range--though they do say the system is limited to 800 yards

only reviews of the bdx system I have found are from gun rags and I sometimes think they are biased ---can anyone point me to a "non gun magazine" review of the bdx system if they know of one?---thanks

Tagging on

 

[cohunt]

well, I'm guessing they have a delay on their release---every place I look they say "back order" or " expected ship date 1-3 months" --I was hoping to look through one of the sierra scopes at a local store to see how the glass looks

guess I'll have to wait till they get released to find out, I wonder if the electronics are having glitches?

 

[ehryk]

I tried contacting Sig on the new tentative release date and got crickets. I wanted to check one out and see how the clarity is. Perhaps another day I suppose.

 

[catorres1]

I got to play with a pre-pro set of these and have gotten a fair amount of info from a guy I know at Sig, but I don't have one to test, so take this for what it's worth.

I assume you are familiar with the ABS, so I won't go into that...the BDX line's main selling points are: all the RF's have ABS ultralite loaded on. What that means is that out to 800 yards, it will provide a shooting solution from the custom curve you load for your rifle. However, unlike the full AB on the ABS, it does not take into account higher level forces like Coriolis, Aero jump, spin drift etc....it really operates much like the ballistics on a Leica 2700. And like the Leica, they limit the return due to those limitations. Second, they pair with the BDX line of scopes and your holdover etc. is displayed via a highlighted dot, it also has electronic cant indicators. At this time, the BDX line of scopes is on their lower end. They plan to eventually expand the offerings to their higher end scopes, but for the moment, they said they wanted to roll it out at a level where more shooters could afford the system.

To me, the real advance comes only in the 2400 BDX and/or the 3000 BDX (bino model). These two models include all the previous capabilities, but where they shine is that they will connect direct to a Kestrel running the full AB solver. So like the new Vectronix x, you range, and it dumps all the info to your kestrel, where the full AB suite crunches the numbers. Unlike the Vec X, this information is then fed back into the RF and displayed there. So in theory, assuming your Kestrel is already up and paired, you hit the button on your RF and you will get a robust shooting solution, including wind holds, displayed in your rf, but that was calculated by the Kestrel. Of course, if you don't want to use a kestrel, you still have AB ultralite onboard. Belt and suspenders.

This is very similar to the 2400 ABS, except the ABS handles it all onboard. There are some upsides to that but also some downsides, particularly in temps and wind handling, though the second is arguable.

The glass on the ABS and the BDX are the same, form factor as well etc.

 

[cohunt]

Thanks 4 that info, sounds like some field testing is on order to see how it really performs, then wait till the put it into better glass.

Sounds like a decent system once it's fully field tested and upgraded, for now I'll let others be the beta testers

 

[CMP70306]

I think it will be interesting to see how this all plays out and what type of system it evolves into.

Currently there are 5 different systems I can think of, first being your standard rangefinder, ballistics calculator and standard scope. I would venture to say this is what the majority of people are using. This is the cheapest as it only requires a cheap rangefinder, decent scope and a 99 cent app

Second would be something like the Burris Eliminator with all three combined into a single unit utilizing holdovers. While I have never used this system based on reviews it seems to work well at shorter ranges but lacks the ability to fine tune the results to better reflect performance at extended ranges.

Third you have the Sig system which combines the calculator and range finder to produces a holdover in the scope similar to the Burris. Since tracking is less important in a scope designed for zeroing and holdovers it can be put in a less expensive scope and be offered to a wider audience. While it seems like a good system I can see the limitations with the current offerings and hope to see future offerings in Sig's top of the line scopes.

Fourth is the Gunwerks system utilizing an advanced Rangefinder & ballistics solver to give accurate results at ranges in excess of 1000 yards. The ability to range and display the ballistic solutions in either MOA/MIL or a Ballistic turret shoot to range is highly adaptable to a wide range or scenarios. Additionally this system is more precise as it allows you to dial the scope and utilize the crosshairs rather than an odd aiming point.

The fifth system would be the Ballistic solver in the scope, like the Revic, in combination with a line of sight range finder. This system I do have some experience with, you simply range the target, point the rifle at it and dial till the scope display reads the same as the rangefinder and shoot. The scope also includes an angle compensator and environmental factors that update the range in real-time so the correct range is always displayed.

Currently Sig has options covering systems 1, 3 & 4 so it will be interesting if they continue to persue only their current market or work to expand into the markets solely occupied by the Burris Eliminator or Revic PMR.

 

[cohunt]

Other problem with all this technology is until the states get their head out of their a $$ is no matter how "affordable" or accurate the systems are to help increase ethical quick kills, some people won't ever be able to utilize any system that gives you a hold-over dot in your scope. Colorado has a hunting law that says "no smart guns " for big game hunting --- this includes ANY electronics within the scope other than an illuminated standard reticle-- so not only are the Burris scopes illegal, but so will be the Sig scopes. It is ok to use a separate range finder and app to dial you scope, but if your scope does it for you it's a no-no in co.

 

[catorres1]

Other problem with all this technology is until the states get their head out of their a $$ is no matter how "affordable" or accurate the systems are to help increase ethical quick kills, some people won't ever be able to utilize any system that gives you a hold-over dot in your scope. Colorado has a hunting law that says "no smart guns " for big game hunting --- this includes ANY electronics within the scope other than an illuminated standard reticle-- so not only are the Burris scopes illegal, but so will be the Sig scopes. It is ok to use a separate range finder and app to dial you scope, but if your scope does it for you it's a no-no in co.

Interesting, i did not know that this was banned in Colorado. Don't have a scope that does this, and I live in Texas, but interesting to know nonetheless. I wonder, would that cover something like the VX6hd with it's electronic cant indicators? Or does it only deal with the aiming point?

 

[cohunt]

Interesting, i did not know that this was banned in Colorado. Don't have a scope that does this, and I live in Texas, but interesting to know nonetheless. I wonder, would that cover something like the VX6hd with it's electronic cant indicators? Or does it only deal with the aiming point?

not sure--but I know that any scope that has a specific aiming point that uses "ballistic data" to help aim is a no-no-- any of the scopes that have Ballistic drop aim points are a no go in CO ( Bushnell, burris, ATN, sig are the ones I know of )--also any gun that has this type of ability, or any electronic trigger like the "tracking point" rifle

not only did I clarify it with the CPW (regarding the bushnell and buris and atn scopes), but about 3 months ago I met a CPW field officer that lives in my area and he confirmed that they are not allowed --- --not sure if this would take the "anti-cant" feature into play or not as it does not "alter your aim point" -- I think if it alters your aim point then its considered a "smart rifle"

here is a copy from the big game hand book --notice #2 says "including smart rifles"---this is the only thing I can find in the "handbook" BUT if you look online you can find the actual rules/regulations/laws documenet that I think is over 1220 pages long--in there it defines "smart rifle" a little better and goes into the parts where is explains that any "smart optic" turns a standard rifle into a "smart rifle" --it does specifically exclude "illuminated reticles" in the "no artificial light for hunting rule"

from CPW big game handbook: "1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES a. Must be a minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm). b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long. c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined. d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh a minimum of 70 grains for deer, pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft.-pounds as rated by manufacturer. e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A smallgame, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required. 2. FULLY AUTOMATIC RIFLES, including smart rifles, are prohibited."



the "hunting handbooks" are just a quick description of the rules --by law you are required to "know all the laws" but thats kinda impossible so often times I will ask for a better definition and then they will link you up with a "field officer" who will give you the actual regulation number and its full wording.

just like their "no NFA items" law for hunting -- this would include full auto, sbr's, sbs's, destructive devices, and OAW's from hunting BUT suppressors ( that are also an NFA item) are legal to hunt with

they also have the law for pistol hunting that says " no butttstocks or OTHER attachments" which refers to pistol hunting with any sort of rear attachment like a sig brace or shockwave blade atatchmenet

 

[catorres1]

not sure--but I know that any scope that has a specific aiming point that uses "ballistic data" to help aim is a no-no-- any of the scopes that have Ballistic drop aim points are a no go in CO ( Bushnell, burris, ATN, sig are the ones I know of )--also any gun that has this type of ability, or any electronic trigger like the "tracking point" rifle

not only did I clarify it with the CPW (regarding the bushnell and buris and atn scopes), but about 3 months ago I met a CPW field officer that lives in my area and he confirmed that they are not allowed --- --not sure if this would take the "anti-cant" feature into play or not as it does not "alter your aim point" -- I think if it alters your aim point then its considered a "smart rifle"

here is a copy from the big game hand book --notice #2 says "including smart rifles"---this is the only thing I can find in the "handbook" BUT if you look online you can find the actual rules/regulations/laws documenet that I think is over 1220 pages long--in there it defines "smart rifle" a little better and goes into the parts where is explains that any "smart optic" turns a standard rifle into a "smart rifle" --it does specifically exclude "illuminated reticles" in the "no artificial light for hunting rule"

from CPW big game handbook: "1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES a. Must be a minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm). b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long. c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined. d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh a minimum of 70 grains for deer, pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft.-pounds as rated by manufacturer. e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A smallgame, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required. 2. FULLY AUTOMATIC RIFLES, including smart rifles, are prohibited."



the "hunting handbooks" are just a quick description of the rules --by law you are required to "know all the laws" but thats kinda impossible so often times I will ask for a better definition and then they will link you up with a "field officer" who will give you the actual regulation number and its full wording.

just like their "no NFA items" law for hunting -- this would include full auto, sbr's, sbs's, destructive devices, and OAW's from hunting BUT suppressors ( that are also an NFA item) are legal to hunt with

they also have the law for pistol hunting that says " no butttstocks or OTHER attachments" which refers to pistol hunting with any sort of rear attachment like a sig brace or shockwave blade atatchmenet

Good to know, thank you! As I read this, I would assume the anti cant would be okay, as that does not alter aiming point. I like to think Leupold would have thought that through before including it on their flagship hunting model. Surprising Sig did not, have to ask my friend over there about it!

 

[Clucknmoan]

Played with one a couple days ago. Couple of small bugs that we found. Altitude kept defaulting to 0 in the app. Also the input field asked for "altitude ", we assumed that it was just that, plain altitude. Couldn't get the known correct dope out of it, finally tried entering DA instead and it seemed to work. Both these issues are probably just bugs or learning curve. Also the reticle is way too thick for my liking. Seemed to track well after we got it figured out though and plenty clear.

 

[catorres1]

Guys,

Just a quick update on the Colorado situation. I just go off the phone with a friend at Sig. Interestingly, they just finished a writers deal to demo and use the BDX system...hunting pronghorn near Craig, CO.

The legality of their system was something they were concerned about for all 50 states, but especially Colorado, so before moving forward, they went through the process with a legal team to make sure it would be Colorado compliant. Obviously, you don't want to cut out one of the biggest hunting states in the US!

Long story short, from a legal perspective, they are 50 state legal for centerfire rifle hunting, including Colorado. This is due to the way the system distributes the tasks...ie...among other things, there is no LRF in the scope itself etc. There are other things that would cause a system to be banned (think Tracking Point, Burris Eliminator is out too), but at this time with current regs, Sig tells me their lawyers went through the rules and definitions to ensure they are 50 state legal.

Just thought I'd pass on what they passed to me, hope that helps!