shot conformation

[Chas1]

1 shot tells you next to nothing. 2 shots, not much more. 3-5 can tell you if you're barking up the wrong tree. 10 will show you you're on the right track. 25-30 is adequate when you're taking measurements on a final load or chasing minute improvements.

Personally I don't run ladders with less than 5 of each load.

+1 ladder test 5 of each load.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Totally agree the first cold bore shot is the most important in a hunting rifle. However, I enjoy shooting and confirming consistency with say 30 or so shots from a rifle in a range session. I still believe the weakest attribute of a hunter and rifle is the hunter. More time shooting typically improves the weakest link. Now if I was lucky enough to have a range on my property, I could focus more on the cold bore shots.

Lucky You!

 

[Mike Matteson]

Your cold bore shot, is probable the most important shot. I haven't seen a time that I could change my rifle to achieve a match cold bore climatizes other that what is it at that time. The only way is either single shot during different times of the year to gather the info with a cold bore shot and ammo. Keeping your ammo in a cold box does help for cold weather shooting to figure out how it's effected. The only thing is, is the rifle at the same temp. I would say your rifle while hunting is matching exterior temps, and your ammo would be somewhere close to that. QUESTION. Is the round in the chamber of the rifle, or in the magazine, What is the differents between the two.
I kind of feel that in hot weather the exterior heat would increase inside your rifle, due the sun beating on you and your rifle. Cold or freezing weather not so much. Being the rifle is against your body if walking. Could be wrong too. I don't know if anybody has study this that much. On how much is transfer from body to rifle in either season.
I do know that powders are effected by temp change. Some greatly, and some not so much. Some powders I don't use, because of how the temp effects them.
I know I haven't done any real studies, except hunting in weather from -20 to 110+. I will state I haven't had any problem in shooting in close range out to 500yds in those temp range. By far they have been 1 shot kills, and mostly in the heart. If I had to make a 2nd shot, it was because of poorly place shot, because of not being steady. No it wasn't the round fault, but mind in not studing enough at the time of shot. A hurried shot. I have said several times, (beware of the guide). I have them tell me to hurry up and shoot. I have only hunted with a guide twice anyway. Both times I was told to hurry up and shoot. The 2nd guide I told not to tell me to hurry up. I'll shoot when I am ready. If the animal moves off, so be it. I'll be dam if I going to make a poor shot if I can help it.
I do agree at the same time I need to extend my testing of my reloads to check on how it does in different temp, and controled study. I didn't have the problem or wasn't aware of any problem my reloads, because of hitting there mark. I will do a bigger study this winter to see what the outcome is.
Extended range will take more care to make that shot.
So now I need to get something to measure the temp of my barrel and ammo petty accurately When out at the range.
The cold bore shot is going to be your first and maybe your only shot at whatever you are hunting. So cold bore shots to me are upmost of importance.

 

[ARlife4me]

I put together a low cost ar15 in 5.56nato (16" faxon pencil barrel) with an intermediate gas system. 300 rounds @ 100 yards under 3 minutes with a $50 2X optic. It never got more than 1.5moa with m855. Could it be better under that volume in that amount of time.................possibly if I did my part and didn't hurry shots? Also, it had poly receivers (ATI). Custom build by those you love too buy from should hold (if done correct) sub at strings/follow-ups. Factory builds, who knows? When I get time I'll check many different procedures discussed to see what works and doesn't for my rifles. Leaving for NM today as hopefully cooler weather than my area has 106* today.

 

[Allen Kitts]

Gunwerks has a good little video with Mike Davidson talking about cold bore mapping.

 

[C.O. Shooter]

Ideal but not practical for everyone/anyone, would be to shoot one shot each day at the same target in like conditions to verify a load. This would work well if you had your own range or the time to dedicate going to a range everyday. You would be able to see your true cold bore impacts for your chosen load.

 

[cdherman]

Ideal but not practical for everyone/anyone, would be to shoot one shot each day at the same target in like conditions to verify a load. This would work well if you had your own range or the time to dedicate going to a range everyday. You would be able to see your true cold bore impacts for your chosen load.

I would counter that the true test would be to shoot at the same target under different conditions, wind, temp, humidity, hell prolly should be hung over once or twice too. Simulate the real world. See how good you really are at doping the wind etc. You could argue to change position, make yourself uncomfortable on purpose. IF your gun stays at 1 moa, through such a torture test, then you would have a shooter.

I like that this thread has stimulated some thought. Cold fouled bore shooting really matters a LOT in a forum named long range hunting......

 

[Mike Matteson]

Gunwerks has a good little video with Mike Davidson talking about cold bore mapping.

Interesting. Not much different that what I said about shootng cold bore shots. I had not watch this vido before every. I do like the 2nd shot back up. I did gain info from the vido.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

I need three shots, with any rifle, to confirm. As I am not very good, I often have trouble with shot # 5 on 5 shot groups. Especially with my hunting rifles, with thin or sporter weight barrels. That 's the one that moves over, usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Its always me. A slight flinch, a slight steer of the grip ,ect. If I get three shots in to one ragged hole, I believe the load is good one as far as precision is concerned. If the 4th or 5th shot goes astray, its me. Settle down, let it cool for 2 min, take another group of three. I try for at least three , three shot groups of sub MOA. in any shooting session. That makes me comfortable with that Load , that Bullet and that COAL and OGIVE . When I shoot that same rifle, with that same load and the same bullet, in the same cases again next week , and I have a terrible group, ,its just me.

 

[VarmintBob]

If you are hunting big game, you only get one shot. Barrel heat affects POI. If you take 25 shots without overheating your barrel, you will get an idea of what your load does. Flinching is not allowed.

 

[billflangjr813]

Sadly, Mike there are two separate conversations here. Cold bore "single shot" testing is totally real, but only occurs at the end of development, as you allude to. Its not to determine nodes or BC or much of anything, EXCEPT, is my rifle cold bore, first shot on target? Which really does matter. If you hunt.....

Your earlier post about second shot is also interesting. Wow. Warm bore was grouping fine. Cold bore, not so much. Wish I had thought of that. I shot my Tikka 6.5x55 every 30 min over the course of a relatively stable session (weather, wind, temp etc) and was happy with the approx 1.25" 5x group (T3 Lite, tiny gun), but shooting immediate second second shot would have been brilliant. Better still, for a gun that was less out of wack than yours, shoot the second shot at a target 3" to the side, to avoid trouble remembering which holes are what............

I do a 3 shot group and clean my weapon. Wait for my barrel to cool down maybe 30 minutes. Then I shoot another three shot group and clean my weapon. It's an all day job. When I hunt, my weapon is clean when I shoot, my barrel is the temperature that it should be cold or cool. Everyone has their own opinion on what to do. No one is right or wrong. It's what you feel best with retired Army Recon.

 

[Stonyman88]

When doing single shot testing does anyone do 2 shot per for conformation? I state this as maybe the 2nd shot could be further away? Are the single shot test you do for velocity nodes and pressure test or accuracy? All I've done is load, shoot and zero optic. Reading so much of what most have done on this forum is driving me to the nut house . I'm not overthinking unless it's math involved word problems that I know too much about. You know the ones about flying from 1 place to another? Factor in taking off from the west coast (Long Beach Airport) requiring you to fly out 2 miles over the Pacific before coming back over land. Then you have clearance authorizing for altitude change, time loss due to altitude change going from 10k to 40k. The it's vector change and decent for landing. See what I mean!

I've never tried any ladder or pressure test, but will need to as I've accumulated more than just the pre'64 to shoot.

What are you looking for in your loads, hunting? I have a way I have worked around that with testing.

 

[skipglo]

Totally agree the first cold bore shot is the most important in a hunting rifle. However, I enjoy shooting and confirming consistency with say 30 or so shots from a rifle in a range session. I still believe the weakest attribute of a hunter and rifle is the hunter. More time shooting typically improves the weakest link. Now if I was lucky enough to have a range on my property, I could focus more on the cold bore shots.

What.....you don't have a range on your property? I thought everyone did!!!! Man..I'm sorry for your loss!

 

[Mike Matteson]

I missed out 2.