shooting a Berger in a 1-10 twist 7mm

[scottyboy]

needing a sanity check or advice on seeing if it makes sense for me to be shooting a Berger out of my Cooper rifle with a 26" bbl 1-10 twist setup.

i keep second guessing myself on what Berger bullets are ideal, if i look at the "sticky post" with the Berger tech data, it appears as if the 168 hunting VLD is suited for a 1-10 twist

however if i go to Bergers' website and enter the 168 hunting VLD (guessing on the FPS) it reports back the 168 hunting VLD is not a good choice

if i keep the same data, but enter the Berger hunting classic bullet, everything seems good.

when i first saw the 168 VLD on the tech sheet, i was happy as this is the bullet i was hoping to shoot..but going to the website it seems as if thats not the case. furthermore, i do not reload and i have yet to find a company that is loading the Berger classic into a 7mm as every place i have looked only loads the VLD.

admittedly i am likely overlooking/overthinking something very simple-stupid.. i could just "buy and try" some different Berger loaded rounds, but id rather avoid spending hundreds only to shoot 3-5 rounds and then realize the bullets just are not meant for my particular setup. i have attached 3 pictures to this post that i am basing my concerns off of

any thoughts, advice, wisdom or slaps to the back of my head to get me thinking straight are appreciated! scott

 

[7mmShooter]

I'm guessing we're talking a 7mm Rem Mag? 2850 is pretty mild. Also the length I got from an updated quick reference sheet was 1.433" which helps a bit. You'd only be losing 4 BC points, and most factory stuff is running much faster anyway, so you should be fine. Even with the depressed BC they should still shoot very well!

 

[scottyboy]

Yes - 7mm rem mag, sorry should have clarified that in the OP. The 2850 was just a guess, I haven't ran anything over a chrono yet, but will once it arrives. I've heard that is closer to 3000, but I know that varies.

I plan on ordering some HSM loaded 168's mostly because of my great luck with HSM in the past, but again if I can save the time and money I was going to look at other options. But if losing 4 BC points isn't a big concern from what you have seen then I'lll stick with the 168's until proven otherwise (please note I mean nothing by this last sentence, to me 4 BC points doesn't mean a thing. All I know is that my 300 absolutely hates certain bullets <extreme mismatch in twist vs bullet> which I never knew held any relevance until I stumbled across this website and people like you!)


Thank you for your input, I really do appreciate it. Scott

 

[7mmShooter]

No problem Scott, happy to help! As long as your rifle shoots them well you don't have anything to worry about, but therein lies the million dollar question... Will it shoot them well? Just have to run a few and see.. Best of luck!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

l could not get the 171 Barnes to group reliably out of my old 10" twist 7stw... Food for thought on a 168 out of a 10" twist 7rem considering the 168 and 171 are about identical...
140 grain nosler accubond were fine from my 7stw though, and I took a nice 6x7 mule deer at 480 yards through the neck with the 140 grain nosler pill from the rifle.

 

[scottyboy]

I've got a box of 140gr on order as well. I suppose I'm brainwashed in thinking the 168gr or similar would be better suited for elk than a 140. (Which i just realized I left out, so now you have the rest of the story) While I know shot placement is the critical component to all of this and that people have taken bears with a red ryder at 50 yards with the right shot placement..I need to overcome my preconceived notions about what is best. I've traditionally been .30 cal shooter, but have been patiently waiting for the right 7mm rem mag to come along, which finally it did..so now need to rethink my thinking. Thanks. Scott

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I's shoot an elk with a 160-175 partition if I had a 10" twist... The 140ab would hold together well enough for most shots but a bit more bullet weight could help for a raking shot... Berger wouldn't cut it in mid weights if bigger than deer is on the menu...The flat based heavy partitions are a bit shorter and should do well in the 10" twist...

 

[cowboy]

needing a sanity check or advice on seeing if it makes sense for me to be shooting a Berger out of my Cooper rifle with a 26" bbl 1-10 twist setup.

any thoughts, advice, wisdom or slaps to the back of my head to get me thinking straight are appreciated! scott

Scottyboy: What you are seeing/going through is a direct result of Berger recently changing their recommendation of twist rates on a number of bullets. For years Berger advertised the .284 cal 168 gr hunting VLD as a 1-10" twist min. I'm guessing that it has been within the last year Berger changed their min twist rate on a number of bullets - not just the .284-168 gr hunting VLD to 1-9" but quite a few others also. So, you are seeing a combination of some old literature and comparing it to some newer revised literature/information.

So bottom line is - you are not the one that needs a slap to the back of the head but Berger deserves one for old faulty information that never was correct.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Scottyboy: What you are seeing/going through is a direct result of Berger recently changing their recommendation of twist rates on a number of bullets. For years Berger advertised the .284 cal 168 gr hunting VLD as a 1-10" twist min. I'm guessing that it has been within the last year Berger changed their min twist rate on a number of bullets - not just the .284-168 gr hunting VLD to 1-9" but quite a few others also. So, you are seeing a combination of some old literature and comparing it to some newer revised literature/information.

So bottom line is - you are not the one that needs a slap to the back of the head but Berger deserves one for old faulty information that never was correct.

Well that' about the brashest thing I've read in a while... You do realize that technology progresses, and Berger is the ONLY company out there honest about when they change things. They are also the only mass-produced bullet company I'm aware of that is open and honest with their customers about how they are constantly testing things to give us (the shooters) the most accurate product and information they can. So, for you to say that they need a slap to the back of the head is pretty egregious.

I shoot 168 VLD's in a 7mmRM with a 9.5 twist, and one with a 10" twist, and they work fine for me, so their information was not totally incorrect.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

From my testing terminal performance and twist rate are directly related. A marginally stable bullet could have terminal performance failure. I firmly believe that sg of 1.5 or greater is needed for reliable hunting performance.

Steve

 

[scottyboy]

thanks everyone for the great information! it seems like my first problem is using the out dated info on the tech sheet here on the forum, i knew the topic was a bit dated, but in my ignorance didnt think the VLD had changed from then to now...so i assumed the twist info was still valid. so moving forward i will just stick with the more accurate/current website calculator

it is reassuring that some of you have had good luck shooting the 168's but as RockyMtnMT points out that it might be marginal (*read, could have potential problems) so i might steer away from the 168 VLD all together. my fear is that it will be good on paper, but the last thing i want is to be shooting bullets at a animal that might not perform how i am expecting them too and having ill effects when it impacts. here again i am not assuming i would have problems or even think that i would, but given the twist rate concern and the sg 'score' i think i am going to look for another option

i am going to keep the HSM loaded Bergers on order and will shoot them either way, but i am also going to look at the ELD-X and the Nosler bullets

i know that i am over thinking this whole bullet selection thing, but this is my first setup i have invested a good bit of money in (well, for me anyways) and according to Cooper it should be a shooter, according to Nightforce the rings and scope i have will track/shoot/keep my scope where it needs to be etc so i dont want the bullet to be the hangup, id rather it be me,...knowing the components i have in place will do their job, if i do mine.

this was all much easier in the past before i knew there was a science behind it all, i would just go to cabelas and have the guy behind the counter sell me whatever random model 700 that was the flavor of the day and then i would walk by and grab the first box of ammo for that caliber..

thanks again for all the input! scott

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The bottom line is use what you have, it should work just fine. If/when you decide to re-barrel the rifle, put an 8" twist on her and do not look back. My 8" twist will handle mid weight pills as well as it handles heavy pills. I never have to worry that I have too slow of a twist either...

I think everyone is waking up to the point lately that marginal stability, though likely accurate, is not good in many respects. It is just as hard to take old info back after it is released as it is to take a bullet back though, so I will refrain from shooting the messenger here.

 

[7mmShooter]

Scott, only thing with using the values in the stability calculator is that they have not been updated. You can get the bullet reference data sheet on the bottom of Berger's homepage, that's what I used to do mine. Good luck!

 

[FEENIX]

needing a sanity check or advice on seeing if it makes sense for me to be shooting a Berger out of my Cooper rifle with a 26" bbl 1-10 twist setup.

lightbulbI'm curious why Cooper went with a slower 1:10" twist.lightbulb

The bottom line is use what you have, it should work just fine. If/when you decide to re-barrel the rifle, put an 8" twist on her and do not look back. My 8" twist will handle mid weight pills as well as it handles heavy pills. I never have to worry that I have too slow of a twist either...

+1!