texas
Well-Known Member
I know that it has been done and the people are asking about remmys and others but what about this one?
Which action would you start with?
Which action would you start with?
Savage in 338 Lapua
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chris matthews
Well-Known Member
Between the two I would start with a Remington.
Reasons why:
1. Savages are cast.
2. They have way to many parts. I try to follow the Keep It Simple, Stupid.
3. Remmy has a lot more aftermarket parts.
4. Remmies are easier to true up.
These a a few reasons, another one is resale value. Remmy has it, Savage don't.
Reasons why:
1. Savages are cast.
2. They have way to many parts. I try to follow the Keep It Simple, Stupid.
3. Remmy has a lot more aftermarket parts.
4. Remmies are easier to true up.
These a a few reasons, another one is resale value. Remmy has it, Savage don't.
Brent
Well-Known Member
Hey Tex,
Chris makes valid points, I've never heard Savages are cast though.
I've heard modifying the extractor for the bigger case is more difficult, although I'm not sure why at this point.
Savage now has a better trigger, that's a plus.
No need for a gunsmith to headspace it, that's a plus.
It's likely the Savage will out shoot the others right from the factory.
It has a floating bolthead, that's a plus in my book.
Extractor blow back out the bolt raceway if it ever failed.
Choices...
Chris makes valid points, I've never heard Savages are cast though.
I've heard modifying the extractor for the bigger case is more difficult, although I'm not sure why at this point.
Savage now has a better trigger, that's a plus.
No need for a gunsmith to headspace it, that's a plus.
It's likely the Savage will out shoot the others right from the factory.
It has a floating bolthead, that's a plus in my book.
Extractor blow back out the bolt raceway if it ever failed.
Choices...
chris matthews
Well-Known Member
Brent,
Yes Savages are cast.
Trigger still has to many parts.
Somebody still has to headspace it, and unless you have the proper tools and gauges, have a smith do it. Most people get rid of the nut when they rebarrel anyway.
Don't know how you will feed it in a Savage. I imagine Sierra's is a single shot.
The extractor would be a pain to modify.
Ain't gonna get a Savage from the factory in 338 Lapua.
Just a few more thoughts...
Yes Savages are cast.
Trigger still has to many parts.
Somebody still has to headspace it, and unless you have the proper tools and gauges, have a smith do it. Most people get rid of the nut when they rebarrel anyway.
Don't know how you will feed it in a Savage. I imagine Sierra's is a single shot.
The extractor would be a pain to modify.
Ain't gonna get a Savage from the factory in 338 Lapua.
Just a few more thoughts...
texas
Well-Known Member
It would be nice if the factory did it.
Brent, I didn't know that it was cast either
Brent, I didn't know that it was cast either
I'm interested, what part of a Savage receiver is cast? I have 5 receivers that I mix and match barrels and they don't look cast in the least, besides cast receivers are just as strong or stronger than tubular steel receivers, reference Ruger's. I modified the mags on my Savage LA's to take a 3.8" COL. Takes a little work but once done, it's done for good. Savage could do it but then they would have to charge more money, now wouldn't they.
I swapped in Timney triggers on all but the last Savage, set them at 2 lbs and called it good. The last Savage I bought had the Accu-trigger, which is about the best factory grabber that come down the pike in a long time. I unscrewed it as far as it would go and it breaks right at 1.5 lb on my trigger scale. No whine here. It's a hell of a lot safer than a Remington trigger, ANYDAY, and yes I've had original Remington *** triggers go off when the safety was flipped off, that's why all my Rem's have after market triggers.
You can use the nut or not, but the nut makes barrel swapping, headspacing and manufacturing a lot easier and you don't have to have a 'smith do the work. As far as most of the other "arguments" they can all be delt with simply and easily. I don't know of many that are throwing away their nuts.
I really don't see what all the fuss is over the nut anyhow, I want a rifle that shoots, it don't have to be "pretty". I don't take a rifle out to kiss and if it is pretty and don't shoot, it don't go either. Mostly, I think the noise is just beer talk or read and repeat the echo.
I have a number of other rifles on Rem 700 and Ruger 77 actions. They all shoot once you sort out the problems and they all have had at least one swap in barrel. Once headspaced and witness marked it's nothing more than unscrewing and rescrewing on the second barrel and torquing to around 100 ft/lbs. So simple and easy even I can do it.
If you want to shot a 4 incher then get a CZ 5550 or a Weatherby or falling block then you can make it as long as you want, or just single load and not worry about it.
I swapped in Timney triggers on all but the last Savage, set them at 2 lbs and called it good. The last Savage I bought had the Accu-trigger, which is about the best factory grabber that come down the pike in a long time. I unscrewed it as far as it would go and it breaks right at 1.5 lb on my trigger scale. No whine here. It's a hell of a lot safer than a Remington trigger, ANYDAY, and yes I've had original Remington *** triggers go off when the safety was flipped off, that's why all my Rem's have after market triggers.
You can use the nut or not, but the nut makes barrel swapping, headspacing and manufacturing a lot easier and you don't have to have a 'smith do the work. As far as most of the other "arguments" they can all be delt with simply and easily. I don't know of many that are throwing away their nuts.
I really don't see what all the fuss is over the nut anyhow, I want a rifle that shoots, it don't have to be "pretty". I don't take a rifle out to kiss and if it is pretty and don't shoot, it don't go either. Mostly, I think the noise is just beer talk or read and repeat the echo.
I have a number of other rifles on Rem 700 and Ruger 77 actions. They all shoot once you sort out the problems and they all have had at least one swap in barrel. Once headspaced and witness marked it's nothing more than unscrewing and rescrewing on the second barrel and torquing to around 100 ft/lbs. So simple and easy even I can do it.
If you want to shot a 4 incher then get a CZ 5550 or a Weatherby or falling block then you can make it as long as you want, or just single load and not worry about it.
Brent
Well-Known Member
Chris, you are the first person that I've ever heard state they are cast, and I would have thought with all the Savage bitchers I'd of heard this one at least a zillion times too, God knows it's all you ever hear about a Ruger.
I'm not sayin you're wrong, just that it's the first time I've heard it, and it's odd it's not mentioned every day.
I'm shocked that you'd suggest someone take it to a smith just to headspace one??? I know you prefer the Rem, but this "is" the advantage to a Savage.
The Savage does not need special guages to headspace unlike the others. Headspace it off a cartridge and tighten the nut, that simple. That's the reason I'd keep the nut "intact" myself. I can buy a threaded and chambered barrel from anyone and install it myself, no lathe and guages required, and I can go shoot in minutes.
I admit, I'm more of a practical person, although I do like a nice lookin rifle, accuracy first though. If Savage had a seious drawback to the barrel nut deal, I wouldn't use it either, I don't think they do tho...
Never having paid a whole lot of attention to the Savage extractor of mine, I pulled it apart to see what needs to be done to open it up. It would take me about 30 minutes to do a great job modifying a Savage extractor for the Lapua case, simple as that. I think Sierra could have done it themselves.
For about $15 in parts, I could modify a Magnum bolthead and extractor, sell it for $50 and make a good profit.
I could modify a $2.87 extractor and sell it for $30 too.
Let your smith open your bolt face and slide it in.
Shouldn't be a problen getting it to feed the Lapua, if you wanted it to.
I'm not sayin you're wrong, just that it's the first time I've heard it, and it's odd it's not mentioned every day.
I'm shocked that you'd suggest someone take it to a smith just to headspace one??? I know you prefer the Rem, but this "is" the advantage to a Savage.
The Savage does not need special guages to headspace unlike the others. Headspace it off a cartridge and tighten the nut, that simple. That's the reason I'd keep the nut "intact" myself. I can buy a threaded and chambered barrel from anyone and install it myself, no lathe and guages required, and I can go shoot in minutes.
I admit, I'm more of a practical person, although I do like a nice lookin rifle, accuracy first though. If Savage had a seious drawback to the barrel nut deal, I wouldn't use it either, I don't think they do tho...
Never having paid a whole lot of attention to the Savage extractor of mine, I pulled it apart to see what needs to be done to open it up. It would take me about 30 minutes to do a great job modifying a Savage extractor for the Lapua case, simple as that. I think Sierra could have done it themselves.
For about $15 in parts, I could modify a Magnum bolthead and extractor, sell it for $50 and make a good profit.
Shouldn't be a problen getting it to feed the Lapua, if you wanted it to.
chris matthews
Well-Known Member
Brent,
I would never headspace off of a cartridge! You have know idea were the resizing die was set. It could be short and some other brand of ammo would not fit. Worse yet it could be long and another brand would have excessive headspace. That is why they make headspace gauges. How do you think it would hold up in court that you didn't use the proper gauges? It wouldn't.
As far as a Remmy trigger going off when the safety is flipped off, that is a **** poor trigger job. Not the trigger's fault.
Also about the nut, if it was the right way to do things or the best way, every gun manufacturer would do it. It's not. Now I am not saying it's wrong but I am sayiing it was the easiest for Savage.
I never said the extractor couldn't be modified, I said it would take a little time.
As far as feeding the Lapua in a Savage, no ones make aftermarket mags for it.
For a Remmy you have Wyatts, SunnyHill, HS, and the AI chassis.
Texas asked which would you do a custom 338 in?
It would be cheaper to do it in a Remmy because of everything I have noted. Would you want to pay $65 an hour to get a smith to make or modify a mag for a Savage or drop in a HS floorplate in a couple of minutes?
It is not that I like Savages or Remmy. Personally I think they all suck and Nesika is the way to go.
But there is a reason why most custom rifles are built on Remington's.
I am not saying that Savages are total crap- out of the box they are the most accurate rifle. But there is better building blocks for customs than a Savage.
I would never headspace off of a cartridge! You have know idea were the resizing die was set. It could be short and some other brand of ammo would not fit. Worse yet it could be long and another brand would have excessive headspace. That is why they make headspace gauges. How do you think it would hold up in court that you didn't use the proper gauges? It wouldn't.
As far as a Remmy trigger going off when the safety is flipped off, that is a **** poor trigger job. Not the trigger's fault.
Also about the nut, if it was the right way to do things or the best way, every gun manufacturer would do it. It's not. Now I am not saying it's wrong but I am sayiing it was the easiest for Savage.
I never said the extractor couldn't be modified, I said it would take a little time.
As far as feeding the Lapua in a Savage, no ones make aftermarket mags for it.
For a Remmy you have Wyatts, SunnyHill, HS, and the AI chassis.
Texas asked which would you do a custom 338 in?
It would be cheaper to do it in a Remmy because of everything I have noted. Would you want to pay $65 an hour to get a smith to make or modify a mag for a Savage or drop in a HS floorplate in a couple of minutes?
It is not that I like Savages or Remmy. Personally I think they all suck and Nesika is the way to go.
But there is a reason why most custom rifles are built on Remington's.
I am not saying that Savages are total crap- out of the box they are the most accurate rifle. But there is better building blocks for customs than a Savage.
Brent
Well-Known Member
Chris,
I understand where you're comming from, I think. If I were in buisiness, I would use a gauge for a customers rifle for the same reasons you mention. I would also prefer a 700 for my custom build up, for some of the reasons you mentioned.
Most guys setting the headspace on their Savages are doing it with fired cases from
a rifle that has been heaspaced with a gauge, so it's at or a little tighter than it would be when using a gauge anyway. At the risk it might not chamber some or any factory ammo. I don't shoot factory ammo, most people I know don't either. If you do, buy a gauge and use it...
If the barrel nut design was used by all for years, the shoulder design without the nut would probably be looked down on just the same, one of them status quo things IMHO.
I'd rather own a Remmy or a Savage over a nesika bay action with the quality control issues they been having.
Mag box modifications -
I'm not sure what the differences are between them, but I wouldn't think it would be too labor intensive to make/convert a box for a Savage. Time is money. Have you ever done one, and any idea what it takes to, and time?
I don't have a problem with my 700 triggers, though I do have most of them at 2# or better so they're reliable with just the adjustments tweaked.
I understand where you're comming from, I think. If I were in buisiness, I would use a gauge for a customers rifle for the same reasons you mention. I would also prefer a 700 for my custom build up, for some of the reasons you mentioned.
Most guys setting the headspace on their Savages are doing it with fired cases from
a rifle that has been heaspaced with a gauge, so it's at or a little tighter than it would be when using a gauge anyway. At the risk it might not chamber some or any factory ammo. I don't shoot factory ammo, most people I know don't either. If you do, buy a gauge and use it...
If the barrel nut design was used by all for years, the shoulder design without the nut would probably be looked down on just the same, one of them status quo things IMHO.
I'd rather own a Remmy or a Savage over a nesika bay action with the quality control issues they been having.
Mag box modifications -
I'm not sure what the differences are between them, but I wouldn't think it would be too labor intensive to make/convert a box for a Savage. Time is money. Have you ever done one, and any idea what it takes to, and time?
I don't have a problem with my 700 triggers, though I do have most of them at 2# or better so they're reliable with just the adjustments tweaked.
Ryan Meyerhofer
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
- Messages
- 1
I joind this forum just to tell you this. I spoke to the folks at savage about a month ago to see if they were going to be chambering the 6.5x47 Lapua in there target rifles. I was informed no but they were waiting on final aproval and had already started getting tooling in to start chambering 338 lapua magnum in there target rifles and law enforcement series.gun)dont know if that helps but im ordering one!!!
milanuk
Well-Known Member
gun)
I know nuthin....
geargrinder
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that it will be a whole new action based on the 110.
Super-sized.
Maybe Kirby will start offering AllenMag prefits.
Super-sized.
Maybe Kirby will start offering AllenMag prefits.
hammertyme
Well-Known Member
I have two of the Savage Target action that qualify as challenges if you will.
I am currently shooting a 338 X 378 Weatherby and the 510 Rouge based on the blown out and improved 460 Weatherby case. A lot of rounds and not a problem. With the factory RUM baffle I can extract the spent cases without a hitch.
There is a major difference between the standard hunting Accutrigger and the match Accutrigger that comes on the target action. Yes the standard trigger cleans up quite nicely. There are two exceptional drop in replacement triggers at Sharp SHooters Supply. I haven't purchased their new match trigger yet as the only way I can get it is with an accuracy package and that I do myself. I haven't replaced an accutrigger yet as I like them for my needs (hunting)a lot. Like the grip safety on my 1911's, the gun will not fire period unless I intend for it to fire.
Barrel nut: Ever wonder why the Savages shoot so well out of the box? Not for once have I thought the sixty dollar factory barrel on a Stevens was of the quality of a 3-$400. after market barrel. I do believe that the nut that some like to complain about not only locks the barrel in place. It also is a tension nut which in my opinion does a great job at working with the harmonics of the barrel. Not sure how much the floating self aligning bolt head has to do with that accuracy! I will bet bunches though.
Now for those who did not see the change in the Savage nut at the shot show. My 510 has a none flat sided spanner nut ( we did ours before Savage revealed theirs)which is the same size as the action or 1.340. It is also made in this case somewhat longer than a typical nut so that half of my 460 Weatherby case is surrounded by 1.340. SO we have a 1.260 barrel cut and threaded to 1.125 roughly, threaded into the action and a longer than normal nut with an o.d. of 1.340 or what I call an added margin for error. I do not think its needed but its there. If this thing did not shoot so well I would take it apart and teflon coat everything so one would just think that the Savage action was 2" longer than normal. The oversized recoil lug is exactly 1.340 as well.
Is there a down side to the Target action?
Sure:
1. The action sells for $445. on up so its quite reasonable.
2. One can buy quality inexpensive barrels for any application ready to thread on.
3. Other than an action wrench and barrel nut or spanner wrench no other tools are required ( required) to change a barrel. Hence gunsmiths are not needed. Just set the barrel against a case and tap the wrench and away you go. I use class three threads so the nut is just insurance.
4. I can change barrels at the range without a vise while others watch in five minutes. I can change bolt heads from 204 to you name it at the range as well in not much more time. No gunsmith needed. Just a longer or shorter pre-set firing pin/ baffle and bolthead and an allen wrench.
I have referrred to gunsmiths twice now so I feel I must clarify. My best friends are gunsmiths and over the years I have supported them while they raised their children. SInce I ran across the Savage I do not have to stand in line for my next fetish to get done. So what I use to donate to my buddies, I use to buy my next barrel or two.
Actually I am still looking for the downside.
Neal
I am currently shooting a 338 X 378 Weatherby and the 510 Rouge based on the blown out and improved 460 Weatherby case. A lot of rounds and not a problem. With the factory RUM baffle I can extract the spent cases without a hitch.
There is a major difference between the standard hunting Accutrigger and the match Accutrigger that comes on the target action. Yes the standard trigger cleans up quite nicely. There are two exceptional drop in replacement triggers at Sharp SHooters Supply. I haven't purchased their new match trigger yet as the only way I can get it is with an accuracy package and that I do myself. I haven't replaced an accutrigger yet as I like them for my needs (hunting)a lot. Like the grip safety on my 1911's, the gun will not fire period unless I intend for it to fire.
Barrel nut: Ever wonder why the Savages shoot so well out of the box? Not for once have I thought the sixty dollar factory barrel on a Stevens was of the quality of a 3-$400. after market barrel. I do believe that the nut that some like to complain about not only locks the barrel in place. It also is a tension nut which in my opinion does a great job at working with the harmonics of the barrel. Not sure how much the floating self aligning bolt head has to do with that accuracy! I will bet bunches though.
Now for those who did not see the change in the Savage nut at the shot show. My 510 has a none flat sided spanner nut ( we did ours before Savage revealed theirs)which is the same size as the action or 1.340. It is also made in this case somewhat longer than a typical nut so that half of my 460 Weatherby case is surrounded by 1.340. SO we have a 1.260 barrel cut and threaded to 1.125 roughly, threaded into the action and a longer than normal nut with an o.d. of 1.340 or what I call an added margin for error. I do not think its needed but its there. If this thing did not shoot so well I would take it apart and teflon coat everything so one would just think that the Savage action was 2" longer than normal. The oversized recoil lug is exactly 1.340 as well.
Is there a down side to the Target action?
Sure:
1. The action sells for $445. on up so its quite reasonable.
2. One can buy quality inexpensive barrels for any application ready to thread on.
3. Other than an action wrench and barrel nut or spanner wrench no other tools are required ( required) to change a barrel. Hence gunsmiths are not needed. Just set the barrel against a case and tap the wrench and away you go. I use class three threads so the nut is just insurance.
4. I can change barrels at the range without a vise while others watch in five minutes. I can change bolt heads from 204 to you name it at the range as well in not much more time. No gunsmith needed. Just a longer or shorter pre-set firing pin/ baffle and bolthead and an allen wrench.
I have referrred to gunsmiths twice now so I feel I must clarify. My best friends are gunsmiths and over the years I have supported them while they raised their children. SInce I ran across the Savage I do not have to stand in line for my next fetish to get done. So what I use to donate to my buddies, I use to buy my next barrel or two.
Actually I am still looking for the downside.
Neal
