Sako 85 Bavarian 7mm Rem Mag - Bad 1st shot

[barefooter56]

Sako 85 Bavarian 7mm Rem Mag.

i am new to reloading and so i do not know if the issue is a reloading issue, a scope issue, a barrel issue or other.

This is a brand new Sako rifle. Guaranteed 5 shot moa.
optilock rings & bases
burris veracity 5-25x50 ffp. (i have use the scope on my 22-250 and with factory ammo which it likes the 50gr vmax from hornady i ended with a .6 - 5 shot MOA (Savage model 12 BTVSS).
rings/bases were all torqued.
action was removed checked and retorqued.
barrel has no rubbing when warm or cold
the process of shooting is to shoot 5 shots, take 10-15 min break then shoot the next 5.

i have tried cheap ammo and expensive ammo & reloads. i have shot off a lead sled with 15lbs of sand and a buddy (who shoots competition) has shot with sand bags. same general result.

The barrel was broke in & cleaned and then it has just been shot with. i do not clean between groups.

the issue is that Hornady superformance 154gr SST (which is what Stoeger indicated they would test the ammo with) gives me 3 MOA at 100 yards.

cheap federal, winchester or hornady gives me about 1.5 - 2.5 moa.

i did some reloading using H4350 with 168 VLD seated 20 thous off the lands - Fed mag primer, new hornady brass & then 1x fired brass

i have a few loads that i could work with but the issue is the 1st shot is often away from all the others. I have attached a couple pics. maybe someone knows the issue.
i would send the gun back to Stoeger for testing/new gun but i know i wont get it back by hunting season.

any suggestions, much appreciated.
on this image - look at shots with 56 +57 grains. 2 different shooters using 2 different rests (sled with 56, sand with 57). the first shot is the outlier.
can not recall which was the first shot with the others.

i was more diligent in marking the shot numbers on this one. The barrel was cleaned. then i shot 3 fouler shots. Each group was shot with a 10 min break between groups. the grouping order was 59, 56, 56.5, 57, 57.5, 59.5, 60 (there was still no pressure signs with either the 61 or 61.5.

Any ideas of where to go next much appreciated.
i plan on trying either H1000 or Retumbo. but will the different powder make a diff with the first shot.

officework13,
Please go to our website and read Eric Steckers article "VLDs. Making them shoot". Your issue just may be in your reloading buy not having truly found the seating depth and velocity accuracy nodes for your rifle. Until you do that you may be just chasing your tail. If you need any help you can contact us in this string or at [email protected].
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[Bigeclipse]

He said his rifle has shot poorly with all ammo so I don't think it is just the VLD seating depth issue.

First thing I would do...ditch the led sled. I have had a ledsled damage a scope because it had too much weight on it and all that energy gets dumped into the scope. Secondly, it is hard to get good shooting form behind a ledslead. Another member on her convinced me to do that and since then my shooting skills have greatly increased. get yourself an adjustable front rest with a good quality rear bag combo.

Secondly...I did not read through all the posts, but I would stop everything you are doing and do this first. If you are not willing to have the rifle bedded into the stock, at the very least loosen the action screws. While they are loose, bump the rifle on the ground with the butt of the rifle. This will get the recoil lug to seat firmly against the stock which is what you want. When you bump it, keep holding down on the barrel while you tighten your front action screw to 15 inch pounds, then do the rear to 15. If your stock has pillars, further tighten the front to 45-60inch pounds and then the rear. If no pillars, then go to 35 inch pounds for both the front and rear action screws.

After this, take your scope off and reinstall making sure your bases and rings are nice and snug with loktight (use blue). Then, clean your barrel out with a nice powder remover followed by copper solvent. Read up on cleaning techniques...so many people have had accuracy issues with poorly cleaned rifles.Then go shoot 3 rounds through it. Do NOT count these rounds. Wait 15 minutes. Now shoot your group. I let 1 minute between each shot. If rifle still shoots poorly you can swap scopes to check and make sure your scope is not damaged OR you could put this scope on a rifle known to shoot well to check. THEN and ONLY then would I try working up some loads because now you have eliminated pretty much all other problems. I would HIGHLY consider having your rifle bedded by a smith if it does not have pillars in it already. just my two cents.

I wasted lots of time and ammo trying to figure two rifles out when it turned out to be one of the issues above causing the poor accuracy (one case was scope malfunction, the other rifle was fixed with proper bedding)

Sako makes excellent rifles. My father-in-law owns several and ALL shoot sub MOA with factory ammo let alone my reloads. I doubt it is anything catastrophic BUT if none of this works it could be your barrel. Bring the rifle to a gun smith to borescope the barrel and check the crown. You can do this ahead of time if you want. A good gunsmith might not even charge you much for this if at all maybe 25 bucks?

 

[dsculley]

I shoot the 168 Berger Hunting VLD in my Savage 7mm Rem Mag. Using the seating depth test recommended by Berger, I found the sweet spot to be .070 jump. I have been told by others on another forum that is where they found the sweet spot for seating as well with this bullet. According to one forum member, this was also the seating depth that Gunwerks used with their Berger 168 VLD's. Your rifle may vary, but this has proven to consistent across many platforms.

I did not have a 1st shot variation as you have. Seating depth may or may not affect the 1st shot variance. If seating depth/charge wt./powder selection, etc. does not fix this, you may try tensioning the barrel. A piece of old credit card between the barrel and forearm is a good way to tension the barrel to test. If tensioning helps, then you can bed the forearm to add tension. By tensioning the barrel, the harmonic effect is reduced.

Here is what Gale McMillan had to say about it:

Quality barrels will perform better free floated but poor quality barrel will perform better with a 3 to 5 lb fore end pressure. The reason for this is that
poor quality production barrels are not stress relieved and will tend to walk as it heats up. By putting fore end pressure you are actually bending the
barrel upward in an ark so that as the bullet starts down the bore it is trying to straighten out the gentle bow induced by fore end pressure and it holds
the barrel against that force. This causes the bullet to exit at the same vibration point shot to shot even though there may be a velocity spread. It is best
to bed the rifle with free floated barrel as it is easy to bed the barrel with fore end pressure should it not shoot free floated. Just hold the stock in a
vice and hang a 5 lb weight to the front swivel and put bedding material in place in the fore end tip and let set up. This means that free floating is not a
panacea and does not always help. Some do and some don't This is why all factory barrels are generally bedded with fore end pressure


FWIW,

Dennis