Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I've got?

[Alan Griffith]

Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Yesterday,

Weather was finally great for shooting some 300-yd ladders with my new 26" 30-06 Ackley barrel by Lilja. My new Winchester brass has been fireformed via COW and Bullseye. I had two new 30 minute VHS tapes to monitor the developing groups via a camcorder. I was able to easily find my 300-yd zero with some fouling shots (3" 4-shot group; first group ever from this barrel).

I first ran the Speer 180 Spitzer and Reloader 25. Velocities were as expected and I was able to somewhat watch the group climb high and right through my old Bushnell Trophy spotting scope with the 36X insert, so I knew things were happening as they were supposed to.

On to the Nosler 180 BT and Reloader 25 load. Same as before.

What I didn't know was the camcorder didn't capture the entire events. I believe the tape ran out on the last 6 shots of the Speer load. And, the camera only captured the first 30 seconds of the Nosler 180 BT, before it went "tits up!".

The Speer video only captured the first 12 of 18 shots. The last 6 shots are obviously high and right, covering 6", of which 5 go into 3-3/8" and 4 into 1-3/4".

Would you feel I'd be safe working those last 5-6 shots (2 grain spread) as a node or should I run the entire ladder again?

In addition, the Nosler 180 BT load also runs high and right. Their is a definate 8" group, high and right, with a solid 4-1/2" gap between it and the more centrailized shots. The last 8 shots cover a spread of 2.8 grains.

For those who might be curious, the rifle is a Rem 700 I had customized into 30-06 back in 1982. It had LOTS of metal removed from the action, the barrel was cut to 22", turned to toothpick dimensions and Mag-na-ported 1-yr after delivery. With Leupold 4x, it ran 6 lbs 7 oz in a fiberglass stock.

Now with the 26" SS Lilja barrel in the same diameter, with a Nikon 4.5-14 Buckmaster scope with mildot reticle, I've added 14 oz, for a total of 7-1/4 lbs.

I can tell you that 24 year old Pachmyer Decelerator pad is going to get replaced PDQ. Hurts!

I'm leaning towards another 300-yd ladder with the last group of shots for both loads.

Opionions, suggestions, critiques?

1st group ever; Speer 300-yd.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/06AI1stGroup.jpg

300-yd ladder for Speer 180 Spt.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/LadderSpeer180Rel25.jpg

300-yd ladder for Nosler 180 BT.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/LadderNosler180BTRel25.jpg

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Thought these might help.

Speer 180 Spitzer
# Chg wt Velocity
1 62.4 2606
2 62.8 2659
3 63.2 2695
4 63.6 2723
5 64 2717
6 64.4 2765
7 64.8 2785
8 65.2 2780
9 65.6 2805
10 66 2832 threw right
11 66.4 2840
12 66.8 2873
13 67.2 2896
14 67.6 2932
15 68 2955
16 68.4 2956
17 68.8 2951
18 69.2 2974

Nosler 180 BT

# Chg wt Velocity
4 63.6 2624
5 64 2702
6 64.4 2757
7 64.8 2715
8 65.2 2807
9 65.6 2844
10 66 2840
11 66.4 2839
12 66.8 2849
13 67.2 2903
14 67.6 2920
15 68 2927
16 68.4 2923
17 68.8 2937
18 69.2 2972
19 69.6 2983
20 70 2714

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Think I would try running shots 15-17 (ones with basically the same MV) into 3 shot groups and see what happens first.

Normally on a ladder, a true node will coincide with a similar node on the MV.

BH

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

BountyHunter,

Thanks for the reply. Didn't think I was going to get any.

I see what you mean where 15 - 17 have low ES. I'll give it a try.

For the heck of it I'm going to also try #3 and #11 in 3-shot groups.

 

[drewman]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Hey was just wondering what a ladder is and how you use it in load developement? If you know any good literature on the subject let me know

Drew

 

[NYLES]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Im with you on the books I have know idea what they are talking about.

 

[davewilson]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

i was thinking 9-11 with the ballistic tip.

 

[NYLES]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Would that show the most consistant velocities at 300 yds is somewhere around 66 grs of powder for that bullet? Is that what we are looking for? Im guessing he set his chrony up at 300 yards and had all these diifernt powder charges loaded attempting to find the most consistant?

Dont mind me I here for class.

 

[NYLES]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

If Im gussing correctly what we are doing Im with you on 15-17

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

I'd seriously consider thevalidating the speer shot #3 or there abouts and go hunting.

I used to have the fiddleitis pretty bad. If that accuracy is validated or even the load for that first group, you're ready to go shootin.

 

[Kenster-Boy]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Just run a search for Ladder Test and there is a ton of info on it. In short it is a test where you take the bullet you want to use and load from the min to the max charge in .2 or .3 or etc. increments. Then shoot them all at the same target. The barrel harmonics recoils in a figure eight motion with a tighter loop on the top and smaller on the bottom. The bullet that leaves the barrel at the very top of the loop will give you your best group. Take the tighest three bullets from the paper and the middle load will give you the best group for that rifle.

THis is what I understand of it. . . never done it thou

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Roy,

Roger that! I should be retesting some on Friday if the weather holds. Number 3 will get a 3-shot group at 300 yds in addition to #11.

I will also rerun a Speer ladder from 67.2 grs to 70.8 grs in .3 gr increments. This time though I will won't use the same type of target; only a 1" inch square on a big blank sheet of clean newsprint. That way I can see holes w/ my spotting scope.

The Nosler BT will get another ladder from 66.8 grs to 71 grs.

Also plan on running a Nosler 180 AB ladder comprable to the BT ladder.

That should be a "telling" day!

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Ok,

I was able to get out this morning with enough time to run one ladder before my wife said she needed me at home; 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip with Reloader 25.

Looked pretty good. Here are the stats.

Caliber 30-06 Ackley Improved
2nd Firing of brass
Seating info
OAL 3.393 base to tip = 3.760 w/ Stoney pt. 8-12 degrees F`, wind 0-1 mph from 10-11 o'clock
Shot 20070113, 0900-1100 hrs
Reloader 25
No sizing, so far. Will probably order a Redding Body die to keep shoulder in check.
Primers punched w/ Lyman Universal decapper then neck sized with Lee collet die; Used standard .3055" diameter decapping rod.
Brass info Brand Length fired/sized headspace
Winchester
Federal 210Match primers
Prep & notes Die used Seating die settings
Forster Ultra seater w/ custom 30-06 Ackley insert
Round # Powder Chg Wt Velocity Comments
1 66.8 2837 72% humidity win
2 67.1 2860
3 67.4 2878
4 67.7 2922
5 68 2890
6 68.3 2935
7 68.6 2953
8 68.9 2935
9 69.2 2977
10 69.5 2955
11 69.8 2955
12 70.1 3021
13 70.4 3035
14 70.7 3037 Ejector mark and hard bolt lift.
71 Did not shoot, 66% humidity

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/GSSP/180BTRel25Ladder20070113.jpg

I pulled the weather data from weather.com but read the wind and temp with my Anometer.

Numbers 13, 14 and 15 were looking pretty good until #15 showed an ejector mark and the bolt lift was hard; time to backoff. Plus, shooting this load at 8-12 degrees F would only tempt more pressure when shooting in warmer weather, IMHO.

Numbers 1 and 2 were from a cold (to say the least) clean barrel and are at the bottom left, possibly out of view of the cameras lens. Things got interesting with #3,4 and 5; want a little more velocity though. I like 9, 10 and 11. Some definate nodes.

Opinions?

Oh yeah, the aiming square was 1-3/4" inside. I was able to hold my cross hair at 14x.

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Rerun 300-yd ladders or go with what I\'ve got?

Yep, looks like you about have it figured out. It should do you well this fall or maybe sooner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif