Redding bushing neck sizing die

[PddPdd]

I don't use a bushing/micrometer sizing die on .223 for an AR application but if it was for an accurate bolt rifle I probably would.

 

[6pakzak]

I'm making for both so I guess I should get it with micrometer, I really like it on my Forester seating die in fact had one with and one without and converted the one without to have it.

 

[Old Rooster]

Don't forget about spring-back when sizing brass. The amount of spring-back depends on the number of firings since last annealed. Fresh annealed cases don't have much spring-back.

I have noticed that Lapua,Peterson,Norma brass has greater spring back than Hornady and RP cases.
After a few shootings they normalize a bit until I anneal and then they return to their regular spring back tension.
Thats what quality brass can get you.

 

[6pakzak]

So from your guys replies brass has about
.0005 spring back, so this is less after annealing, how much less?

 

[QuietTexan]

You need a mic for loaded neck diameter or a tube mic for neck thickness to pick the bushing. Mandrel use whatever you want, but -0.001" is common enough to start with.

EDIT cause I'm dumb:

Also sounds like I don't need micrometer?

Did you mean an S-Type mic neck bushing die? I think that would be way overkill for what you're talking about here. Controlling the length of neck sizing is a very valuable tuning option, but I would rank it below cartridge selection - meaning I would change 223 Rem to something else before going down that road.

 

[PddPdd]

I have pin gauges for the common bullet diameters in .0005" increments, without these it is difficult (I don't know how you would measure ID accurately) to measure ID or spring-back. I switched to annealing after every firing 2-3 years ago so I never tested to determine non-annealed brass spring-back. I didn't have pin gauges until last summer.
I have had experience with annealed brass and found I needed to go to a smaller bushing than .002" under caliber to make the mandrel final sizing step worthwhile.
Sorry I don't have more details yet as I just started getting more Redding bushings to find out what bushing to use with a given mandrel final sizing step.
I'm sure someone on this forum is further along in this journey.

 

[Old Rooster]

X 2 ! Black Nitride


Yep…sounds good. I just use the 'regular' type S bushing sizer dies and save the micrometer for the seater die. Also, don't forget your decapping die (Lee Universal decapping die will be fine) since you'll be taking the guts out of the Redding.

I have messed up several FLS dies due to decaping spent cases with my expensive dies and had scratch marks on all my brass now due to that mistake.
A cheap Lee de-sizing die Deputy spoke about has changed that.It does not re-size the case but deprimes only and now only the dirt and grime stay's in the vibrotary case cleaner.After the brass is clean and shiny I full length size along with bumping shoulder back.
De-caps 223 through 45-70

 

[Mike Matteson]

I am getting into using bushing FL dies, and mandrels. I so far gotten a Gen-3 case length cutter, and a 21st Century neck cutter for thickness. Ran into problems with mandrels that didn't fit the ID of the new cases. So I had the mandrels cut down to fit the neck for both operations. I would have done this several months ago, but just got the case to work with. It was recommended to me to cut the neck for thickness first before sizing down the neck to the caliber I am going to use the case in. I have gone as far as to setup to step down the neck in 3 stages, because going from .284 or 7mm to .243 or 6mm. The spring back I haven't determine yet. What size bushing and mandrel to use to get the tension I believe I am after. I have gotten several bushing to be able to set the tension. So presently it's kind of been a guessing game. Today I will get the thickness cutter set up. What I have come up with is: Need to set the COAL of the case first, to be accurately the thickness cut to stop at the correct spot and not cut into the shoulder. I am looking at annealing the case somewhere in the down sizing. Steps, Steps. Thanks to the LRH form to change my ways to reloading, to the better.

 

[Old Rooster]

So from your guys replies brass has about
.0005 spring back, so this is less after annealing, how much less?

Spring back returns to MORE spring back which enhances neck tension also called neck grip.
As the case becomes work hardened spring back weakens and after annealing it returns to stiffer neck.

 

[PddPdd]

Annealing of brass softens the material. Material engineers would say it is more ductile, making it easier to bend and take on a new shape because of it's reduced temper/strength.
Note: This is why one should only anneal the neck of the brass.
Softened brass will readily take on a new shape with less force and stay in that shape as compared to brass that has been work hardened by multiple firings. Work hardened brass will exhibit more spring-back because it is harder and more brittle. In this discussion brittle and ductile are opposites.

I believe Old rooster is correct in saying that spring back does create more neck tension/gripping force on the bullet than annealed brass so that is one factor in bullet grip.

I believe Mikecr has pointed out numerous times that the amount of the neck that is bushing sized is a bigger factor for neck tension than the gripping force. The amount of neck length bushing sized is what micrometer bushing dies control for the reloader.

In my thinking, one would have to know what is happening in the chamber at the point of bullet release.
1) does the chamber pressure expand the case neck to release the bullet or
2) does the chamber pressure overcome the neck gripping force and force the bullet out or
3) a combination of 1 & 2.

I believe the reason many reloaders anneal their brass after every firing is for brass consistency because every time the brass is fired it work hardens a little or a lot more depending on how much deformation it is being exposed to. Annealing returns the brass to the same starting point after every firing.

If one does not anneal their brass ever, eventually the brass will work harden to the point where it becomes too work hardened/brittle and cracks due to the pressure and resulting deformation from firing.

Hope this clarifies a few things and invites those with more knowledge to share.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Deputy819]

A cheap Lee de-sizing die Deputy spoke about has changed that.

Heck, I've got mine screwed into a cheap Lee press that is dedicated to de-capping only.

 

[Old Rooster]

Spring back returns to MORE spring back which enhances neck tension also called neck grip.
As the case becomes work hardened spring back weakens and after annealing it returns to stiffer neck.

I got cut off to go to a doctors visit so I didn't finish.
On this new Lapua brass the spring back is so strong that it retains it even after 1 annealing.
In time it will weaken but the point I wanted to make is that quality brass retains spring back better than Hornady or RP.
I have some other pack of 50 Lapua brass that has been shot 23 times and I see the spring back diminished.
To get past that I use a neck bushing too tight and use a mandrel to bring it back to the size I want.
My point is that quality brass mankes a difference.

 

[Longtine88]

I've gone to the Redding FL match bushing dies with the guts removed, and followed up with sinclair mandrels for all my 6GT and 6.5 CR loads. Works great.

I'm with JT on it. Same way I do it. Works for me

 

[6pakzak]

When I anneal the case my shoulder bump is very consistent meaning I don't have to adjust the die and after going through lee collet die the I get almost 0 runout on case.