Rangerfinders

ndthwacker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
81
Im in the market for a new rangefinder that will do 800 yards on deer.. My only question is what companys offer a rangefinder i actually put my ballistic info in. Companys like bushnell and the conx say you can put in 3 custom loads or whatever they call it. Well its really not a custom load you enter its 5 drops to create a guesstimate curve.. That is not what im looking for. As i understand the g7br2. And the lica 2000b and 2700b you can enter your real life ballistics, is that it for a 1500$ price range?
 
its my opinion that they are all going to have guesstimates with a ballistic curb. Some being closer than others. That being said, if you go with the sig kilo 2400 abs...at least you are getting applied ballistics out of it, which is generally adaptable to dope variations. No to mention for the same about the same price as the lica, the 2400 will get to about 2 miles of range. So your 800 yards shouldnt be a problem.
 
When it comes to Leica only the 2700B let's you input your personal ballistic curve. You can go to their website and download your curve after you have input the ralevant info. A micro SD card is supplied with the a unit. There is no SD slot in the 2000B.
Recently I ranged a single sheep at 2272m with my 2700B so 800 yards on a deer will be easy.
 
its my opinion that they are all going to have guesstimates with a ballistic curb. Some being closer than others. That being said, if you go with the sig kilo 2400 abs...at least you are getting applied ballistics out of it, which is generally adaptable to dope variations. No to mention for the same about the same price as the lica, the 2400 will get to about 2 miles of range. So your 800 yards shouldnt be a problem.
Do you happen to know how fast any the 2400abs will take to adjust to the elements. For instance its sitting in my truck and we jump out and go for a walk. Within 1 min a need to range something.. does a person have to wait awhile? Or is there a way to lock in temps on any of these units??
 
Yes it's something that you need preset up ahead of time. So if you know that you are going you need to plug it all in. It's Bluetooth through an app to adjust all the settings and gun selection etc. once that's all done then yes...until the sun comes up. Or something else changes. There's a dude on here, I want to say Andy who did a YouTube video on the whole thing after it came out. That would give you the best idea of how it works.
 
When it comes to Leica only the 2700B let's you input your personal ballistic curve. You can go to their website and download your curve after you have input the ralevant info. A micro SD card is supplied with the a unit. There is no SD slot in the 2000B.
Recently I ranged a single sheep at 2272m with my 2700B so 800 yards on a deer will be easy.
If i understand correct on the 2700B if you use the sd card your range is then capped at 1000? What i dont understand is why people have end up tweeking there mv ans s.d to get it to match there other ballistic programs. I get the 2700 leaves out alot elements to be calculated. But out to 1000 yards any decent ballistic app should be right there even without a few elements..
Mostly im looking for the ultimate hunting range finder thats going to be reliable and can give me my vertical Dope quickly..
I kinda like the idea of the leica due to it gives me what i need to use a ballistic app if i have the time. If not it gives me what i need to make an accurrate shot to 1000 givin the right conditions quickly. Good glass. Reliable. And even like the idea of having differnt s.d. card for every rifle.
But then i like the idea of all the fetures of the 2400abs, and the ability to get dope past 1000 instantly. But worried about the reliability of it. When u got alot into a hunt ur going on i cant handle questioning if a important piece of equipment is gunna ruin my hunt..
 
Well hell. I just use my little cheap halo range finder with the slope cos adjustment for bow hunting. Sits on my bino harness. The money is in the solver. All ballistic programs need to be trued out. Most real world data won't be straight with a solver until you can get your mv and bc to curve along all the ranges you are trying to hit. These computers can't be used in liu of getting good dope or verify real world drop unfortunetly.
 
ndthwacker,

First, please feel free to PM me if I can help further, I'm going to try and give the cliff notes here to help. I have worked with both Sig and Leica products, have a review on the 2700b on a couple other boards, currently testing out the new Sig 2400 BDX for another coming review, so pretty familiar with the workings of these units.

Long and short on the 2700b.

Strengths: Great glass, very sure ranging under difficult conditions, excellent divergence numbers and laser shape. Onboard environmentals for stand alone use. Can load a custom curve onto the card, into the RF. In these terms, definitely one of my favorites.

Weakness: Ballistics returns. Not only that they are limited to 1k, and there is a reason for that (arguable, but thought out at least). But because their ballistics system was built before distances stretched so far and BC's strayed so much from the G1 model (the only model it uses), it sometimes has to be tweaked to really work well. The more a bullet strays from the G1 model, the more error there is. That said, by tweaking velocity and BC, I've always been able to get a bullet to within .1 MOA out to 1k yards.

However, this is excluding coriolis, aero jump etc., because Leica's system does not measure these. So these can be a factor if you are really shooting long, but out to the 1k limit, I don't think they matter all that much unless you are a really good shooter, which I am not. That said, that is likely the reason why Leica and ABUL limit their ballistic returns past a certain point. They feel their systems are accurate enough up to a point, but past a certain point (whatever they decide), they feel you need the full solution provided by the full AB suite or whatever.

Not as good for bowhunting perhaps, it will not give you just an angle modified range, it's either LOS or full ballistics with chosen curve. IIRC, the minimum distance is 11 yards, which is no problem. Could probably put in any generic curve, but not sure how you would need to set the sight in distance in the curve. I'm not a bow hunter, so have not really tested that, but I am not sure how well this would work.

++Update+++
Since posting this, I talked with Leica, all Leica B models since the 2000 will give a sufficient 'angle modified' answer for bow hunting if you run it in EHR mode. The curve and enviro info will be considered, but at those close ranges, it will not matter. I have since tested this on a new RF vs Sig RF's in AMR mode and they agree.

Temp drift...more on that below.

Sig BDX 2400

Strengths: Strong ranging, though in my experience, not as strong as the Leica unless you are hitting truly reflective targets, then it will outrange it. That said, we are talking pretty solid 18-1900 yard performance in sun on trees in my experience, and longer under better conditions. So it's good stuff.

Excellent ballistics options. They are as follows: Onboard with phone, you load your ballistic and enviro data to the RF (enviro data can also update automatically from the phone if there is a cell connection to pull data from and the devices are paired). Uses ABUL (AB Ultralight) to supply a solution to 800 yards. Does not consider Coriolis etc. Choice 2: Pair to a Kestrel with AB instead. In this case, it delivers range and angle data to the Kestrel, which then computes a solution using the full AB suite, so as far as you can range, it will give you a solution back into the RF. The connection is sure and very quick...super easy to configure and the data flows quickly.

Weaknesses: Optics are not as good as they are on the Leica, but still good, but exhibits some significant flaring and a strong color cast that some people find troublesome. Unlike the Leica, it does not have any onboard enviros, so if you are not using a Kestrel and have no cell signal, you cannot update your enviros with new data unless you just happen to know what your pressure and temp are etc.
When using the Kestrel, if you want to be accurate with Coriolis etc., you have to set DOF manually on the Kestrel. Not that big a deal, but does add a bit of an extra step.

One thing you mention that is definitely true....temp drift is real, whether you consider that an issue or not is up to you. But the Leica and the 2400 ABS with their onboard temp sensors will definitely drift and will take a fair amount of time (one manual says up to 30 mins IIRC) to stabilize to new conditions, depending. The 2400 ABS will allow you to 'lock' your temp so it does not heat up in the sun, but it does not allow you to 'clear' the sensor once the temp is wrong, so warm truck to cold air is going to cause your temp to be wrong for a while. The Leica...can't lock it, and can't clear it. So add to it the 'sit in the sun for a while' and you could be way off (I have been more than 20 degrees off on occasion).

The BDX handles this by offloading the temp etc. to another device. In the case of the Kestrel, it too will exhibit drift, but they solved this by leaving the temp sensor exposed and instructing users on how to 'clear' the sensor and then lock the temp reading in(super easy and quick to do), so that you are not effected by 'warm truck to cold air' or 'sun heated it to death'.

You also mention the 2400 ABS....it has the same optics and ranging engine as the BDX, but does not connect to a Kestrel...of course, some would say it does not need to as it has onboard full AB etc. While it costs a bunch more, it's not really any more expensive than a BDX or 2700 plus a Kestrel. In the opinion of many, it may be the best way to go, as it is fully integrated. Push button, get a full solution. Others are concerned about the temperature problem, or want a better wind solution, or would prefer to split out their expenditures, making for cheaper upgrades in the future. Different opinions for sure, but it's definitely one you should consider depending on what you value, and the relative strengths and weaknesses of the systems.

Believe it or not, that really is the shorter version, but not as short as I intended! Still, feel free to PM me or whatever if I can answer any questions for you.
 
Last edited:
ndthwacker,

Although the 2700b has the ability to load a personal ballistic curve and I have one loaded into my unit I tend to use the EHR (equivalent horizontal range) for most of my shooting as I dial my scope. On my unit the EHR works to 1050m or 1148 yards which is further than I ever intend to shoot any game animal and when set on EHR the RF ignores all the ballistic curves.
catorres1 has given some very good information but I think the EHR would work very well for bow hunting from a tree stand etc as it will give you the corrected equivalent horizontal range from 11m/y and beyond.
 
kiwikid,

Good point that EHR allows the user to get ballistic returns for an even longer distance if you have an appropriately cut custom turret. However, the ballistic curve is still applied, as it must be loaded for all ABC returns.

That said, I am not sure any ballistic curve will make a difference at bow distance. As I am not a bowhunter, I have never tested it to see if it will work. Might have to test it's returns vs my BDX set on AMR and see if the returns come back different. You may very well be right in that it will work ballistic curve or not, which would be cool for bow guys (which includes my son). Might have a chance to test that tomorrow at a buddy's place, I think he has a tree stand that I could borrow to see how it works.

If I get a chance, I'll post it up here.
 
ndthwacker,

First, please feel free to PM me if I can help further, I'm going to try and give the cliff notes here to help. I have worked with both Sig and Leica products, have a review on the 2700b on a couple other boards, currently testing out the new Sig 2400 BDX for another coming review, so pretty familiar with the workings of these units.

Long and short on the 2700b.

Strengths: Great glass, very sure ranging under difficult conditions, excellent divergence numbers and laser shape. Onboard environmentals for stand alone use. Can load a custom curve onto the card, into the RF. In these terms, definitely one of my favorites.

Weakness: Ballistics returns. Not only that they are limited to 1k, and there is a reason for that (arguable, but thought out at least). But because their ballistics system was built before distances stretched so far and BC's strayed so much from the G1 model (the only model it uses), it sometimes has to be tweaked to really work well. The more a bullet strays from the G1 model, the more error there is. That said, by tweaking velocity and BC, I've always been able to get a bullet to within .1 MOA out to 1k yards.

However, this is excluding coriolis, aero jump etc., because Leica's system does not measure these. So these can be a factor if you are really shooting long, but out to the 1k limit, I don't think they matter all that much unless you are a really good shooter, which I am not. That said, that is likely the reason why Leica and ABUL limit their ballistic returns past a certain point. They feel their systems are accurate enough up to a point, but past a certain point (whatever they decide), they feel you need the full solution provided by the full AB suite or whatever.

Not as good for bowhunting perhaps, it will not give you just an angle modified range, it's either LOS or full ballistics with chosen curve. IIRC, the minimum distance is 11 yards, which is no problem. Could probably put in any generic curve, but not sure how you would need to set the sight in distance in the curve. I'm not a bow hunter, so have not really tested that, but I am not sure how well this would work.

Temp drift...more on that below.

Sig BDX 2400

Strengths: Strong ranging, though in my experience, not as strong as the Leica unless you are hitting truly reflective targets, then it will outrange it. That said, we are talking pretty solid 18-1900 yard performance in sun on trees in my experience, and longer under better conditions. So it's good stuff.

Excellent ballistics options. They are as follows: Onboard with phone, you load your ballistic and enviro data to the RF (enviro data can also update automatically from the phone if there is a cell connection to pull data from and the devices are paired). Uses ABUL (AB Ultralight) to supply a solution to 800 yards. Does not consider Coriolis etc. Choice 2: Pair to a Kestrel with AB instead. In this case, it delivers range and angle data to the Kestrel, which then computes a solution using the full AB suite, so as far as you can range, it will give you a solution back into the RF. The connection is sure and very quick...super easy to configure and the data flows quickly.

Weaknesses: Optics are not as good as they are on the Leica, but still good, but exhibits some significant flaring and a strong color cast that some people find troublesome. Unlike the Leica, it does not have any onboard enviros, so if you are not using a Kestrel and have no cell signal, you cannot update your enviros with new data unless you just happen to know what your pressure and temp are etc.
When using the Kestrel, if you want to be accurate with Coriolis etc., you have to set DOF manually on the Kestrel. Not that big a deal, but does add a bit of an extra step.

One thing you mention that is definitely true....temp drift is real, whether you consider that an issue or not is up to you. But the Leica and the 2400 ABS with their onboard temp sensors will definitely drift and will take a fair amount of time (one manual says up to 30 mins IIRC) to stabilize to new conditions, depending. The 2400 ABS will allow you to 'lock' your temp so it does not heat up in the sun, but it does not allow you to 'clear' the sensor once the temp is wrong, so warm truck to cold air is going to cause your temp to be wrong for a while. The Leica...can't lock it, and can't clear it. So add to it the 'sit in the sun for a while' and you could be way off (I have been more than 20 degrees off on occasion).

The BDX handles this by offloading the temp etc. to another device. In the case of the Kestrel, it too will exhibit drift, but they solved this by leaving the temp sensor exposed and instructing users on how to 'clear' the sensor and then lock the temp reading in(super easy and quick to do), so that you are not effected by 'warm truck to cold air' or 'sun heated it to death'.

You also mention the 2400 ABS....it has the same optics and ranging engine as the BDX, but does not connect to a Kestrel...of course, some would say it does not need to as it has onboard full AB etc. While it costs a bunch more, it's not really any more expensive than a BDX or 2700 plus a Kestrel. In the opinion of many, it may be the best way to go, as it is fully integrated. Push button, get a full solution. Others are concerned about the temperature problem, or want a better wind solution, or would prefer to split out their expenditures, making for cheaper upgrades in the future. Different opinions for sure, but it's definitely one you should consider depending on what you value, and the relative strengths and weaknesses of the systems.

Believe it or not, that really is the shorter version, but not as short as I intended! Still, feel free to PM me or whatever if I can answer any questions for you.
Thank you for the reply. I believe i have read all your reviews already and on various forums. They are very well appreciated and have helped me learn a great deal.. being able to lock in the temp on the abs is a nice feature for me. Also i will be looking forward to seeing your results testing with a bow with angled shots. I hunt tree stand some but mostly spot and stalk in badland type terrain. So some shots have been 40 yards almost straight down when they bed in deep cuts in the cool shade early season.. I do have a chance to buy a new 2400abs for 1100 today. So i might, just have to probley pick it up.
 
ndthwacker,

Although the 2700b has the ability to load a personal ballistic curve and I have one loaded into my unit I tend to use the EHR (equivalent horizontal range) for most of my shooting as I dial my scope. On my unit the EHR works to 1050m or 1148 yards which is further than I ever intend to shoot any game animal and when set on EHR the RF ignores all the ballistic curves.
catorres1 has given some very good information but I think the EHR would work very well for bow hunting from a tree stand etc as it will give you the corrected equivalent horizontal range from 11m/y and beyond.
I think you are right as i have a friend who runs one just for bow hunting as they didnt have the 1600b in stock when he went to go buy it. I know he has never loaded a curve on it and has never had an issue bow hunting with it.. im also not sure what he has his set on
 
Is there any reason the 2400abs wont work for bow hunting? I have one of my friends g7br2 at my house i been playing with a few days now and i just dont like it very much.. I cant stand the reticle in it. Also in very light fog my old nikon 1200 would range out to 230 yards while i only could get 78 yards on the g7. And i tried along time to get anything past that.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top