Partial neck sizing - a problem?

Jeffpatton00

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I'm bumping back the shoulder on my 224 Valkyrie once-fired bass by .004" in a Redding FB bushing die, and bringing down the neck with a bushing to a neck tension of .003". However, keeping the shoulder bump to .004", I'm seeing the neck get sized only about halfway. I assume this is not ideal and a consistent sizing along the length of the full neck is preferable. Is this true? If so, how do I bring the full length of the neck down to a consistent diameter without pushing the shoulder back far too much?

thx
Neck_LI.jpg
 
My guess is you aren't bumping the shoulder back if you aren't fully sizing the Entire neck. My guess is that process of sizing the neck is moving you contact point of the comparator contact location is all.

I don't see how the shoulder of the die can contact the shoulder of the case if the neck hasn't been completely sized.

Im a brand new Reloader with only 100 rounds under my belt so I will be following to learn as well.

Steve
 
I'm using the Hornady LNL case comparator and I measured the shoulder datum before and after sizing the neck - I moved the shoulder back on a test case by about .006" further than I wanted, but the image shows that the neck only got sized about halfway. So, I'm assuming you're right, it'd be necessary to fully size the body and push the shoulder back all the way, in order to fully size the neck. I don't want to do that, I'd like to be able to control the location of the shoulder, while simultaneously controlling the neck tension. I'm hoping the guys with much experience will weigh in on this.
 
You will need to size the body with your die in order to size the neck though. When you size the body, the shoulder will lengthen before you begin to bump it. If you do not want to size the body at all, you would need to buy a neck (only) die.

Steve
 
All I use are Type S dies and they only size about half of the neck. I have never had any problems. Right or wrong I don't bother knowing how much shoulder bump I have. I only shoot for my own pleasure, no competition. I use the Alex Wheeler method for determining how much to size a fired case. I gotta be doing something right!
 

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All I use are Type S dies and they only size about half of the neck. I have never had any problems. Right or wrong I don't bother knowing how much shoulder bump I have. I only shoot for my own pleasure, no competition. I use the Alex Wheeler method for determining how much to size a fired case. I gotta be doing something right!

I sure like those groups.
 
Redding bushing dies do not size the entire length of most necks. And nothing about FL sizing of necks would be 'good' anyway(only bad). Also, 4thou+ is excess shoulder bumping.
Did you try turning that neck or something?
It looks about as mangled as any I've seen..

Do you have a how-to book on reloading?
 
Redding bushing dies do not size the entire length of most necks. And nothing about FL sizing of necks would be 'good' anyway(only bad). Also, 4thou+ is excess shoulder bumping.
Did you try turning that neck or something?
It looks about as mangled as any I've seen..

Do you have a how-to book on reloading?
This was a test case to check how much neck would be sized without moving the shoulder, not a finely tuned finished product. Not sure what you're saying about FL sizing of necks - are you saying that the bushing sizing only half the neck is preferable? That's what I'm trying to determine. Do you use bushing dies, and if so, do you set the shoulder bump? if so, how much of your neck gets sized?
 
I've used bushing sizing for necks longer than I can remember..
Your standard Redding/Wilson type bushing dies partially size necks, and the length of that much is adjustable.
As far as shoulder bumping/body sizing, this is additional with most 'FL bushing' dies,, and separate adjustable.
There are only a couple die makers offering dies with bushings that include FL neck and shoulder in them.
Some of us bushing or collet neck size with one die, and body size/shoulder bump with a body die in separate operations.
None of this is actual FL sizing, and that's fine.

For consistent neck tension, you should size no more neck length than seated bullet bearing communicates with. From here, you can reduce neck sizing length incrementally during load development, if desired. This length greater/smaller is the true tension adjustment (not seating interference amount).

All new/unturned necks have thicker brass nearest neck-shoulder junction. This is referred to as donut area, which changes over reload cycles. It's detrimental to seat bullet bearing into it, and just as bad to bring it into tension otherwise. Sizing of it does just that, regardless of seating depth.

Even with turned necks, bringing near shoulder neck area into tension is bad. If bullets seat through neck-shoulder junction, you've brought the shoulder angle into tension. If bullets are seated short, as normal, sizing length beyond this will only leave un-upsized neck area binding the bearing-base junction. Either way, this portion of necks will not expand the same as the rest.
It is not as consistent as the simple spring back gripping of bullet bearing, where partial length sizing.

There is actually nothing 'good' with FL sizing of necks, especially when it goes beyond seated bearing length.
While it greatly increases neck tension (to an extreme), just as well it increases tension variance (to an extreme).
There are only a couple underbores, small BR cartridges, that benefit with this anyway. For the rest of us, it's bad in every way. You should never do it.
 
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Redding bushing dies do not size the entire length of most necks. And nothing about FL sizing of necks would be 'good' anyway(only bad). Also, 4thou+ is excess shoulder bumping.
Did you try turning that neck or something?
It looks about as mangled as any I've seen..

Do you have a how-to book on reloading?
@Jeffpatton00
I agree on 2 things here, 4 thou is to excessive in bumping the shoulder back, it only needs to be 1 or 2 thou.

And Redding bushing dies do not
Your picture shows that 2/3rds of the neck sized not 1/2 which is more than enough.
 
While some say .004 is excessive bump I'm not so sure anymore, seems theres more and more BR guys bump that and more.
I'm more in the camp .002-.003.
As long as theres no case head separation problems and your accuracy is were you want it bump .004 I dont think you'll hurt a thing.
 
I'm bumping back the shoulder on my 224 Valkyrie once-fired bass by .004" in a Redding FB bushing die, and bringing down the neck with a bushing to a neck tension of .003". However, keeping the shoulder bump to .004", I'm seeing the neck get sized only about halfway. I assume this is not ideal and a consistent sizing along the length of the full neck is preferable. Is this true? If so, how do I bring the full length of the neck down to a consistent diameter without pushing the shoulder back far too much?

thxView attachment 198464


Jeff this is just some of the things that I see/hear that look wrong From a gun smiths point, To me that may be/cause some of the problems you are having.

First, your chamber looks very rough. Once fired brass should come out without any annular rings/marks and should look like new brass with only a little carbon on part of the neck. This could be caused by/from several things. A bad reamer, improper feed rate, not periodically cleaning, wrong spindle speed and a roughing reamer. (Believe it or not I have had to set the chambers back on several that were chambered with the roughing reamer only and had no freebore or lead).

The other concern is the .004 thousandths shoulder bump. The gunsmith probably head spaced somewhere between .001 and .003 for proper head space. When you bump .002 or .003 over what was original head space, you defeat the purpose of a good head space and end up working the cases more that necessary. When you bump the shoulder, that ends up being the head space, so I recommend the minimum it takes to chamber well.

Not criticizing, just mentioning some of the problems I see for your benefit.

J E CUSTOM
 
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