Ohio Train Wreck

[Ol' Red]

I remember a thread about that. It sure sounded like the RR employees were really making out until a member who works for the RR chimed in. On the rails constantly away from family and the company turning down any days off. Yes the WH stepped in and they still don't get any days off but get paid more.

Exactly. Oil drillers work long hours and get paid a lot. When fatigue sets in their crew is put in a dangerous position, but somtimes have to meet a deadline. When railroad workers get fatigued and are working a skeleton crew, every town they pass through is in danger. I grew up just east of East Palestine, OH. So I have been following this like yourself.
Be cautious with your drinking water. The EPA will be on the side of the railroad. Stay safe.

 

[3chester]

The bearing failing, was detected but not in time to prevent the axle failure, which cause the derailment of 23 of the about 150 cars. They had to, no doubt, figure the detonation and burn off of those leaking rail cars was in an effort to prevent a cataclysmic explosion of the chemical fluids onboard the train, which build heat and pressure after the upset. The 2 mile radius was an indication of what could have been possible. That West Fertilizer plant in Texas April 2013, comes to mind.The main reason Mayor Pete shyD away, was the catastrophic magnitude of just such a pressure wave occurring. He didn't obviously know any better but, sure some rocket scientist , clued him in. That's why, strictly a,no show, til the danger level subsided.

 

[birddog 68]

Exactly. Oil drillers work long hours and get paid a lot. When fatigue sets in their crew is put in a dangerous position, but somtimes have to meet a deadline. When railroad workers get fatigued and are working a skeleton crew, every town they pass through is in danger. I grew up just east of East Palestine, OH. So I have been following this like yourself.
Be cautious with your drinking water. The EPA will be on the side of the railroad. Stay safe.

I'm only about 20 miles east of East Palestine so I'm awfully close to where you grew up.
Yes we've been getting our water from a natural spring that's just north of us.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Kind of like Flint Mich. The requirement for testing lead had been in place for long time. They all looked the other way. I did some reading on the water going to them. They knew dam well it was bad for their water system. Some water eat lead. A lot of the older water systems the line going into a home or other places are white lead lines from the water main. They knew in the late 50's or before that lead was bad, but not much was done about. There is a lot of those systems in the Eastern States. The water lines are deep because of freezing
The EPA was requiring testing every year. Then is no problems were showing up it move out something like every 3yrs. I was on a water borad of director for about 30yrs, so I have a lot of insight on this. The government sure can looked the other way when they want too. Some of there reg's are dumb, and other are not. We had to test every year for several years. The test were from home tap on the first draw in the morning and not using the water for at least 6hrs before. That was when copper pipes were solider together with 50/50. Now it's all silver solider.
The testing in the river will have to continues and daily for a long time. Especially after each storm that increase run off, The well depend on how they are set up and how deep they are. It won't take to long if shallow wells. Deeper one will take some time to show up if moving down into the underground water. The will have to watched and tested monthly now and annually after that. If signs of problems are showing up them more often.
Old B.J. Sec. of Transportation needs to go, for sure. The EPA leader needs to be gone too. They should have been on top of it from the start with people on the ground that day.
Some really had there heads up their A**s.
This shows just how bad our President is and his staff is. AS I call biden "Old Dumb Bast**d. The people who voted him in should be standing at the gas stations handing out money to everybody that's fueling up.

 

[Muddyboots]

What is more disturbing is there are well established emergency response protocols in place for this very scenario at DOT PHMSA, EPA and FEMA in conjunction to LEPC (local emergency planning committee) and SERC (State Emergency Response Commission) in coordination to local entities like chemical plants and FD's. They are well trained and qualified to do their jobs.

Every transporter of HAZMAT has spill response listed on their manifest. It is the law. If a spill occurs, the EPA National Response Center MUST be IMMEDIATELY notified to initiate response (containment) to further protect both human health and the environment.

National Response Center | US EPA

The NRC is the federal government's national communications center, which is staffed 24 hours a day by U.S. Coast Guard officers and marine science technicians. Sole federal point of contact for reporting all hazardous substance releases and oil spills

www.epa.gov

These protocols have been in place well for over 35 years or more so its not as if no one understands what to do. This was a colossal CF of incompetence at the highest levels. IMO someone had to stop the protocols from initiating the emergency response required for this derailment. You need to understand the lack of response has never been this bad for a derailment.

In a case like this, EPA should have initiated their own response upon lack of of 24 response by Norfolk. All costs accrued by EPA are billed back to Norfolk. This SOP on any response scenario.

So who stopped the response? EPA? POTUS?

 

[Muddyboots]

Any national recognized spill response company can mobilize in incredibly short time, having resources on site with 24 hours to begin assessments of need and resources. Nope why not?

 

[comfisherman]

That's the part I don't get. I don't know a lot about dirt but do understand about water and transporting cargo over water. You spill a gallon of hydrocarbons in the water and the coast guard sends a kid from Kansas that's seen the ocean twice to come ask "why you had no spill prevention measures in place for a blown hydraulic line".

I've seen booms deployed for gas leaks that dispersed and evaporated before they finished deploying.

How in the heck was there not an equivalent on sight soon as it happened with trains.

 

[3chester]

Any national recognized spill response company can mobilize in incredibly short time, having resources on site with 24 hours to begin assessments of need and resources. Nope why not?

The semi controlled, release and burn off, had way less battle damage, than the possible explosion, in lives and property loss. They thought it'd could be another , West Fertilizer Plant 2013 in Texas. there. That why it took so long for Mayor Pete to appear, not gonna risk anything

 

[birddog 68]

So who stopped the response? EPA? POTUS?

Probably the same person that denied FEMA from deploying. I'm sure he would have done the same if this happened in a liberal state.
Amazing that we'll send billions to the Ukrainian mob but no help for tax paying US citizens.

 

[bdlesh]

I would not surprised in the least if this wasn't planned by the government to " test the waters" for future pandemic use. They already released the china flu on us.....what is there to stop this from happening again? Never trust anything the government tells you and only half what they show you...think moon landing

 

[Ol' Red]

Exactly. Oil drillers work long hours and get paid a lot. When fatigue sets in their crew is put in a dangerous position, but somtimes have to meet a deadline. When railroad workers get fatigued and are working a skeleton crew, every town they pass through is in danger. I grew up just east of East Palestine, OH. So I have been following this like yourself.
Be cautious with your drinking water. The EPA will be on the side of the railroad. Stay safe.

OOPs. That was supposed to read west of East Palestine.

 

[Muddyboots]

The semi controlled, release and burn off, had way less battle damage, than the possible explosion, in lives and property loss. They thought it'd could be another , West Fertilizer Plant 2013 in Texas. there. That why it took so long for Mayor Pete to appear, not gonna risk anything

And who made that decision? Based on what? Burning of complex organic compound that can generate "daughter" compounds to the air water and soil as an environmental air contaminant is ludicrous. Any decision of that magnitude MUST be made at the highest levels in EPA as part of their on site emergency spill response. Oh wait, they were not there. A nitrogen fertilizer plant explosion is no comparison to highly complex organic compound that can break down into more sinister compounds. Its like saying "wear a mask" and ok I trust you.

The chemical fallout to the surrounding area and or even farther away has been exacerbated by this decision. We just had a "nuclear" style release to the environment.

 

[3chester]

And who made that decision? Based on what? Burning of complex organic compound that can generate "daughter" compounds to the air water and soil as an environmental air contaminant is ludicrous. Any decision of that magnitude MUST be made at the highest levels in EPA as part of their on site emergency spill response. Oh wait, they were not there. A nitrogen fertilizer plant explosion is no comparison to highly complex organic compound that can break down into more sinister compounds. Its like saying "wear a mask" and ok I trust you.

The chemical fallout to the surrounding area and or even farther away has been exacerbated by this decision. We just had a "nuclear" style release to the environment.

Not sure who made the call but, TX plant lost 15 firemen, 160 casulalties, 150 buildings destroyed for lack of right evacuation call. They N/S RR ,no doubt have a script pre-written, in these dire cases. When It's the RR, they get there in their workN clothes boys, they seen a wreck or 2.They just ain't gonna wait ,to have some wall flower, who won't make a call, they're are not capable of. Can't ever be expected to do a man's task, when there's a critical timeline.

 

[Muddyboots]

Not sure who made the call but, TX plant lost 15 firemen, 160 casulalties, 150 buildings destroyed for lack of right evacuation call. They N/S RR ,no doubt have a script pre-written, in these dire cases. When It's the RR, they get there in their workN clothes boys, they seen a wreck or 2.They just ain't gonna wait ,to have some wall flower, who won't make a call, they're are not capable of. Can't ever be expected to do a man's task, when there's a critical timeline.

Any decision is made upon the chemicals involved, an explosion at a fertilizer plant has no bearing at all upon it. There are highly qualified people in EPA and DOT PHMSA who have the experience in RR derailments versus local officials. The wallflowers smile for PR. The hazards from ALL the chemicals must be evaluated not only for local impact but for potential release outside the defined boundary upon downstream areas. The responsibility is complex and far reaching impacts will now be outside the derailment zones of concern.