New found knowledge... Tested!

[liltank]

Well I put into practice some new knowledge today. I was use to the old ways of running bullets close to the lands and neck sizing only. As you all know, I went to the shoot in Williamsport this past weekend. While I was there, I asked a lot of information and information was offered without prompting. I just happen to be around when one guy was talking about Berger bullets. He used a .309 neck sizing bushing and showed another guy the lack of quality control at Berger. He slid one bullet through and another bullet from the same batch and it did not pass through. When asked if he has seen a decline in quality he answered yes. He said the bullets from this year are running .030" longer than last year.

Well this conversation lead into seating depth. The one guy said that he set his bullets .080" to .100" deep with VLD's. This goes against everything I have ever read or learned from other shooters. When I questioned this he said, "Guys that shoot short distance will seat to the lands or stuff them in." He said that most guys that shoot long distance target always seat their bullets deep.

Talking to another individual I asked about his loading. I asked why I was getting pressure sign after firing from virgin brass that showed no signs of anything wrong? I told him that I only neck size and that I load to the lands. He said that he always FL sizes his brass, and for the first firing on virgin brass he will load to the lands, but after that he always seats deep also. He said that FL sizing always keeps things equal for him across the board. He said he always bumps the shoulders too. He uses a 300 Win Mag.

So with this new found knowledge I tried a couple of suggestions. 1. I put all my loaded rounds through the body sizing die and bumped the shoulders. Then I seated the bullets at .050", .075", and .100" from the lands. Well the .050" put 2 shots within an 1" of each other and the 3rd dropped about 3.5" low. The second group of .075" produced about 3" and the shots were more concentric. The third proved to be the money length. .100" produced a 1.550"

Reduced 77%

640 x 480 (26.52K)​

giving me .493 MOA at 300yrds. All loads were tested at this distance. It was 50 degrees with 6 to 8 mph winds from my 7 o'clock. It was rather exciting and I am going to stop there and not touch anything. Thought I would share. I was also shooting prone off of a bi-pod and rear bag.

Tank

 

[winmag]

Nice shootin' Tank.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) Works every time.

Steve

 

[elkaholic]

Well I put into practice some new knowledge today. I was use to the old ways of running bullets close to the lands and neck sizing only. As you all know, I went to the shoot in Williamsport this past weekend. While I was there, I asked a lot of information and information was offered without prompting. I just happen to be around when one guy was talking about Berger bullets. He used a .309 neck sizing bushing and showed another guy the lack of quality control at Berger. He slid one bullet through and another bullet from the same batch and it did not pass through. When asked if he has seen a decline in quality he answered yes. He said the bullets from this year are running .030" longer than last year.

Well this conversation lead into seating depth. The one guy said that he set his bullets .080" to .100" deep with VLD's. This goes against everything I have ever read or learned from other shooters. When I questioned this he said, "Guys that shoot short distance will seat to the lands or stuff them in." He said that most guys that shoot long distance target always seat their bullets deep.

Talking to another individual I asked about his loading. I asked why I was getting pressure sign after firing from virgin brass that showed no signs of anything wrong? I told him that I only neck size and that I load to the lands. He said that he always FL sizes his brass, and for the first firing on virgin brass he will load to the lands, but after that he always seats deep also. He said that FL sizing always keeps things equal for him across the board. He said he always bumps the shoulders too. He uses a 300 Win Mag.

So with this new found knowledge I tried a couple of suggestions. 1. I put all my loaded rounds through the body sizing die and bumped the shoulders. Then I seated the bullets at .050", .075", and .100" from the lands. Well the .050" put 2 shots within an 1" of each other and the 3rd dropped about 3.5" low. The second group of .075" produced about 3" and the shots were more concentric. The third proved to be the money length. .100" produced a 1.550"

Reduced 77%

640 x 480 (26.52K)​

giving me .493 MOA at 300yrds. All loads were tested at this distance. It was 50 degrees with 6 to 8 mph winds from my 7 o'clock. It was rather exciting and I am going to stop there and not touch anything. Thought I would share. I was also shooting prone off of a bi-pod and rear bag.

Tank

Hi Tank! That is really interesting! Did he give any reason as to why the long range guys seat way off of the lands? I can only assume that it has to do with the bullet stabilizing after distance but then why would it shoot better at close range seated out? Seems contradictory and kind of a mystery? On the other hand, sounds like it worked for you.....Rich

 

[MSLRHunter]

Great shooting! I have always tested various seating depths with different rifles and several times have been surprised at what I have found.

 

[squirrelduster]

Interesting information Tank.
I was talking to a guy at our local range one day and he is a long range competition shooter. He has held several world records at the 600 and 1000 yard ranges, we talked about seating depths and his observations.
His techniques are the same as what you found. He told me some of the guys are seating bullets at .125" off the lands. These guys are breaking world records every few months so it must work.
I am working up loads for my 7 WSM and plan on trying the deeper seating approach during my testing.

 

[GNERGY]

Tank, now you have me wondering cause so far I can't get the 250 NAB to shoot in my 338 ultra mag. I have loaded .005 .010 .015 .020 off the lands and now I have some loaded touching the lands to go shoot tomorrow and they say 25 to 40 MPH winds.
I know from the factory they come with a freebore so maybe I should seat some deeper if the ones at the lands don't work.
If the Noslers don't group I am going to switch to Barnes.
Keep us informed on your progress
Tarey

 

[Bravo 4]

When I first got my .338 Edge from Kirby I found a load that was consistently well under 1/2moa at 100yards with a 300SMK kissing the lands. I stuck with this load until I shot it at 1000yards and noticed a solid 1moa verticle stringing. While shooting at 1000 I was also chronoing every shot and noticed up to 40fps difference in the rounds fired. I seated my bullets .1 deeper and even though my 100yard groups open up to stay in the 1/2moa range, my groups at distance shrank along with my velocity spread. This is just my experience. I also learned how important a chronograph is to use in load developement. That and 100yard groups mean little at long distance.

 

[Buffalobob]

I usually recommend that for American made brass that you weight sort it and and then when you shoot it you throw away the goofy ones.

Here is a video of a guy testing for the "goofy ones".



YouTube - Case Sorting @ 1000 Yards #1

 

[liltank]

Well the new seating depth proved deadly to a groundhog today. Bested my longest by 18yrds at 648yrds. Little booger made it back in the hole where I shot it, but there was blood all over the ground, the post it was in front of and meat chunks in the grass. I have found the pot of gold in my rifle. I would try seating deeper, but I'm afraid of changing the seating depth on my die!

Tank

 

[elkaholic]

Well the new seating depth proved deadly to a groundhog today. Bested my longest by 18yrds at 648yrds. Little booger made it back in the hole where I shot it, but there was blood all over the ground, the post it was in front of and meat chunks in the grass. I have found the pot of gold in my rifle. I would try seating deeper, but I'm afraid of changing the seating depth on my die!

Tank

Way to go Tank! It's still a mystery to me how this all works with better accuracy at 100 at one depth and better seated out for long range? Could be just a velocity thing as someone previously posted......Rich

 

[liltank]

Way to go Tank! It's still a mystery to me how this all works with better accuracy at 100 at one depth and better seated out for long range? Could be just a velocity thing as someone previously posted......Rich

I wish I could explain to you how it all works out, but just does. My cousin is having problems with 300SMK's in his Lapua. He tried the various recipes and lengths posted on this sight, but none has worked very well yet (I think part of it is recoil, but who knows. He needs a break on it!). So he is going to try the deeper seating depth and see what he gets.

Tank

 

[flyin lizard]

Hey Tank ,just have to say thanks a ton for posting this. I am new to the LR shooting style and currently working with a Sav mod 11. Just re-barrelled it with a 26 inch douglas from SSS, have approx. 100 rounds down the tube,thats counting the first shoot and clean breakin shots as well as the load test groups. In a nut shell things have gone well but after reading your post I tried some loads again and seated the bullets deeper like 2.888 coal for a 300wsm with 175 and 190 vld hunting over R 17 and R 19 the groups tightened up,thanks again.
Paul

 

[liltank]

Hey Tank ,just have to say thanks a ton for posting this. I am new to the LR shooting style and currently working with a Sav mod 11. Just re-barrelled it with a 26 inch douglas from SSS, have approx. 100 rounds down the tube,thats counting the first shoot and clean breakin shots as well as the load test groups. In a nut shell things have gone well but after reading your post I tried some loads again and seated the bullets deeper like 2.888 coal for a 300wsm with 175 and 190 vld hunting over R 17 and R 19 the groups tightened up,thanks again.
Paul

Not a problem. I like to share what I learn!

Tank