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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
Necessary precision to kill something
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<blockquote data-quote="LRNut" data-source="post: 3060897" data-attributes="member: 3230"><p>The podcast was created by Applied Ballistics. These guys absolutely know what they are talking about.</p><p></p><p>It might seem complicated to you but it is fairly simple math - the podcaster said you need a sample of 30 to come up with meaningful conclusions (and anyone who has ever had a statistics class or 6 sigma training is taught this). In my example, the statistical "bell curve" says 99% of all shots are just under .4 MOA - and the actual group was .4 MOA. Even the best possible 3 shot group could not "guarantee" precision better than a 30 shot .4 MOA one.</p><p></p><p>The OP podcast is not intended to define a 1/4 MOA rifle - if you want to call a 3 shot group a 1/4 MOA rifle, go for it. But don't extrapolate those three shots to calculate your odds of hitting a deer at 1000 yards, because it doesn't tell you much of anything other than it is more accurate than a rifle that shoots 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups. </p><p></p><p>Bryan Litz has written that group size in immaterial; what is important is the mean radius to center. Google it if you are curious. But what does he know anyway; he is only the chief ballistician at Applied Ballistics.</p><p></p><p>I am just stunned so many people here think a three shot group characterizes the entire population of shots. Imagine you have a box of 20 cartridges...you pick three and shoot them. Two define the extreme spread, and from that you are going to conclude the other 17 are going to land inside those two shots? </p><p></p><p>Again, look at the IBSA ten shot record sized group: it is just over .25 MOA. Why do you think they shoot 10 and not 3?</p><p></p><p>Just to amuse myself, I will throw this out to anyone: you come to my place in CO. You shoot three shots in the morning at my 910 yard gong, under calm conditions - or you shoot throughout the day when conditions are perfect. If you shoot a 2.275" (1/4 MOA) group, we grill some burgers and drink some beer that evening - you stay overnight and do it again in the morning. If you repeat that, you do it one more time the next day. If all three groups are 2.5," I will give you $1000 and pay for you $500 in travel expenses. If not, you pay me $200 and pick up your own expenses. Any caliber but rifle must be 15 lbs or less and shot off a bipod. I have a concrete patio so you will have a perfect position.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LRNut, post: 3060897, member: 3230"] The podcast was created by Applied Ballistics. These guys absolutely know what they are talking about. It might seem complicated to you but it is fairly simple math - the podcaster said you need a sample of 30 to come up with meaningful conclusions (and anyone who has ever had a statistics class or 6 sigma training is taught this). In my example, the statistical "bell curve" says 99% of all shots are just under .4 MOA - and the actual group was .4 MOA. Even the best possible 3 shot group could not "guarantee" precision better than a 30 shot .4 MOA one. The OP podcast is not intended to define a 1/4 MOA rifle - if you want to call a 3 shot group a 1/4 MOA rifle, go for it. But don't extrapolate those three shots to calculate your odds of hitting a deer at 1000 yards, because it doesn't tell you much of anything other than it is more accurate than a rifle that shoots 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups. Bryan Litz has written that group size in immaterial; what is important is the mean radius to center. Google it if you are curious. But what does he know anyway; he is only the chief ballistician at Applied Ballistics. I am just stunned so many people here think a three shot group characterizes the entire population of shots. Imagine you have a box of 20 cartridges...you pick three and shoot them. Two define the extreme spread, and from that you are going to conclude the other 17 are going to land inside those two shots? Again, look at the IBSA ten shot record sized group: it is just over .25 MOA. Why do you think they shoot 10 and not 3? Just to amuse myself, I will throw this out to anyone: you come to my place in CO. You shoot three shots in the morning at my 910 yard gong, under calm conditions - or you shoot throughout the day when conditions are perfect. If you shoot a 2.275" (1/4 MOA) group, we grill some burgers and drink some beer that evening - you stay overnight and do it again in the morning. If you repeat that, you do it one more time the next day. If all three groups are 2.5," I will give you $1000 and pay for you $500 in travel expenses. If not, you pay me $200 and pick up your own expenses. Any caliber but rifle must be 15 lbs or less and shot off a bipod. I have a concrete patio so you will have a perfect position. [/QUOTE]
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