Mill or MOA

[Kaveman44]

So I'm just getting started in PRS and I've only ever known MOA ,it comes to me quickly but from everything I read all most everybody uses mills in PRS, is it worth me just to learn Mills or do I just stick with MOA.

Thanks guys

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Mils. Mils are so much easier. Once you've played with it for 10 minutes you'll wish you had switched a decade ago.

 

[Kaveman44]

I'm leaning that way, also I read that dialing up in Mils is much faster than MOA

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I'm leaning that way, also I read that dialing up in Mils is much faster than MOA

It's much easier for my mind to calculate in 10' than in 4's.

It's a .1 mil per click vs a 1/4 moa click..

I used to be an moa guy, but once I was exposed to mils, I would never go back. Now, I own plenty of both, but when I have the option, I go mils every time.

 

[jasonco]

Changing to MILS, was actually simple to comprehend, with easier math for unknown distances.

Are using a Xmas tree reticle?

 

[Kaveman44]

Yes I am

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I don't think it really matters to be honest. Spotters aren't allowed to call out corrections so communication between the 2 doesn't matter. I compete in prs and I'm still using a moa scope. I'll eventually probably change over but its not high on my list.

 

[rammac]

Good article that does a great job of comparing the two.

MIL vs MOA

A quote from the article

• 1/4 MOA adjustments are slightly more precise than 1/10 MIL
• MIL values are slightly easier to communicate
• If you think in yards/inches the math for range estimation is easier with MOA. If you think in meters/cm the math is easier with MIL.
• If you have a friend that is already using one, there is some advantage to being on the same system.
• Around 90% of the pros use MIL
• More product options in MIL
• Whatever you decide, go with matching turret/reticle (i.e. MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA)

I can add one more bullet point; if you want to range with the scope use MIL but if you use a range finder it doesn't matter which you use.

 

[nkyshooter]

No "learning" needed really - it is just a "meterstick" as opposed to a "yardstick". I agree that ranging using MRAD (milliradians/MILs) is easier for me - don't know if because I learned that way or if it just is ...

MIL vs MOA -Same process - different ruler ... both are great. Whatever your spotter uses needs to be the same so you don't have to try and convert on the fly.

 

[LRNut]

I use both; I agree that MOA clicks are more precise for dialing up, but holding for the wind is probably more precise in mils simply because milrad reticles generally have finer subtensions.

 

[QuietTexan]

Mil works fine with imperial units like inches and yards, it's not limited to only working in metric length measurements. 1 radian is the length along the radius of a circle equal to the radius itself. A milliradian in 1/1000th of that. You can describe it in inches just fine, so if you're functional in inches and yards for distance use them. I think that's the part that hangs people up on changing - you don't have to start using meters and centimeters at all, you just have to change your thinking a bit regarding what you're describing. Which is an angle defined by your distance from the object, and not a fixed description of the angle itself.

An MOA is 1/60th of 1/360th of a circle, and a radian is an arc as wide as however far away you are from the object.

1 Mil (3.6" at 100 yards) describes a larger angle than 1 MOA (1.047" at 100 yards), meaning as distance increases your Mil number will be smaller than the corresponding MOA. That's the "easier to communicate part", looking at a random 30-06 1000 yard ballistic table at 700 yards I can say "drop 5.2" for mil instead of "drop 18 and a quarter" for MOA. You spin 52 clicks at 1/10mil vs 73 in 1/4 MOA.

 

[LRNut]

Mil works fine with imperial units like inches and yards, it's not limited to only working in metric length measurements. 1 radian is the length along the radius of a circle equal to the radius itself. You can describe it in inches just fine, so if you're functional in inches and yards for distance use them. I think that's the part that hangs people up on changing - you don't have to start using meters and centimeters at all, you just have to change your thinking a bit regarding what you're describing. Which is an angle defined by your distance from the object, and not a fixed description of the angle itself.

An MOA is 1/60th of 1/360th of a circle, and a radian is an arc as wide as however far away you are from the object.
View attachment 259250

1 Mil (3.6" at 100 yards) describes a larger angle than 1 MOA (1.047" at 100 yards), meaning as distance increases your Mil number will be smaller than the corresponding MOA. That's the "easier to communicate part", looking at a random 30-06 1000 yard ballistic table at 700 yards I can say "drop 5.2" for mil instead of "drop 18 and a quarter" for MOA. You spin 52 clicks at 1/10mil vs 65 in 1/4 MOA.

That is true, but it is easier to think of a milliradian as 1/1000 of the distance to the target (a radian is pretty huge). Thus, a mil is one yard or 36" at 1000 yards, or 3.6" at 100.

I don't know too many people that think of an animal's vital area in metric units, including me. My goal is to land my bullet within 5" of my point of aim; at 500 yards, I know I better hit within .25 mils (okay, 2.77 to be exact). So your point about applying them to imperial units is spot on.

 

[QuietTexan]

Right, I didn't actually show any math on deriving the unit, but once people see it it tends to click pretty fast.

At 1,000 yards, a radian is 1,000 yards wide. 1/1000ths of that is 1 yard. A yard is 36". Thus one mil at 1000 yards is 36 inches.
At 100 yards, a miliradian is 1/1000th of the distance, or 100/1000, aka 1/10th, aka 0.1 yard wide. A tenth of 36 inches is 3.6 inches.

The 0.1 per 100 becomes as rote a memory as 1in at 100 for MOA. A mil is a tenth of a yard per 100 yards. Or about half a vital zone per 100, in deer terms.

It breaks down in imperial units very cleanly because it's easier to multiply and divide by even 10s than by 4s in your head regardless of what the base unit is.

 

[QuietTexan]

Another proof that MIL is easier, I made a mental math error on the MOA calc above. 18 and a quarter is 73 clicks, not 65. This is also why turret caps/stickers and zero stops are better than counting clicks.