Looking for some help on a new hunting rifle. Bergara/Waypoint/Tikka

[jlarose85]

Finally ready to pull the trigger on a new rifle and wanted to get some thoughts and opinions from you guys. Have basically always hunted with an AR chambered in 6.8 SPC and this will be my first bolt gun. I've already done a ton of research but I'm stuck between a couple different options. I've settled on a .308 and I'd also like a 20" barrel since I'll be shooting suppressed. Not looking to spend more than 2K but less than that is better. Hunting distances on our property is from close up in the woods out to 300 yards max.

I initially had my eye on a Tikka CTR but hated the stock. Started looking at the Bergara's after that which was right when the Wilderness line was coming out and really liked the Terrain. It checked all the boxes for me on paper, went to a local gun shop that had one in 6.5CM and after putting my hands on it, I settled on the .308 version of that rifle. Just needed to save some money. Fast forward about a year and last week I went to the same local gun shop and got seriously derailed. Lol.

They had a 2020 Waypoint in 6.5CM and after handling that gun I'm seriously considering that instead. It's more expensive than the Bergara but it's SO much lighter and I just love the way it handles and I really like the vertical grip I think because I've always shot AR's. Still checks all the boxes I want and more and the .308 version with the steel barrel seems right up my ally and almost 2# lighter than the Bergara! The only thing that's making me shy away a little is it's a new action and I'm not sure about its accuracy and long term performance and all that. Everything I can find online (mostly from gun reviewers unfortunately) seems to point towards a great gun but I wanted to get y'all's thoughts on the Waypoint vs the Bergara but just in general as well. Is the Waypoint a Rem700 clone action just like the Bergara? Do y'all foresee and issues getting things like replacement or upgraded barrels for that action? If it's a Rem700 clone I'd assume not but I can't find that info anywhere. Is BSF doing their steel barrel too or just the carbon one?

This also sent me down the rabbit hole of maybe picking up a Bergara and putting it in an AG stock or a Manners EH1. That way I could have a proven reliable and accurate action & barrel in a carbon stock that would net about the same weight as the Waypoint. After thinking about that for a while I also considered maybe just picking up a Tikka (looks like you can get a T3x lite compact for around $700) threading the barrel and putting it in an EH1 with the Tikka mini chassis. That would probably get me close to the same territory as well.

So that's how I got where I'm at and I'm not really sure what route I should go now. Any input for you guys is greatly appreciated. I'm fairly new to the bolt action game so let me know what you think!

 

[waspocrew]

Just a few of my thoughts... I like your thinking - a .308 is a great round! Regarding the rifles you mention, I have only shot the Tikka (I've owned a T3 in a few cals including .308, and currently have a CTR in .223). I've only handled the Waypoint and Bergara in a local shop.

From personal experience, I'd be inclined to purchase the CTR in .308. You're right, the factory stock isn't too great, but there are plenty of awesome options (Manners, AG composites, or even a KRG Bravo). With a CTR, you'd be ~ $1000 for the rifle and have some wiggle room for a stock, rings, etc. Toss in a $10 trigger spring and you'll be sitting pretty.

The Waypoint did seem like a nice rifle. Action was pretty smooth and trigger felt nice. I think it has good potential but still pretty new at this point. I've only handled the Bergara, but it seemed alright. Action wasn't nearly as smooth as Tikka, etc. but they seem to have a good following and reputation for accuracy.

A Seekins Havak Bravo in .308 could be a consideration as well - they've upgraded the bolt which is now much smoother and shoot very well. This should fall in the same price point as the Waypoint.

 

[Rick Richard]

Purchasing any factory rifle that will shoot accurately and consistent is a "Maybe". With that said, my best luck has been with the Savage brand and with barrel contours that are a bit on the beefier side.

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

I have owned a Bergara Wilderness line and was not that impressed. Even dropped it into a few aftermarket stocks, one of which it did not fit into despite being touted as R700 compatible. Action was a little rough and didn't like to unlock when it got warm which I find typical of R700 clones. Of your list, I would put the Bergara in last place.

Tikka will always be a solid option, plenty of guys here can report on success with factory and semi custom builds based off that action and there is plenty of aftermarket support for barrel replacements etc. I personally run EH1's on my rifles with the mini chassis and love them. That being said, a basic Tikka plus a EH1 with chassis plus a new barrel will put you over $2k.

The reason the Waypoint is more expensive if that it is marketed to have all the stuff you would want to add to a more typically priced base rifle. If it has everything you want, then just buy it and be happy with it the way that it is. I haven't seen anything to indicated it has any issues, and it is made from good components. As mentioned above, the Seekins competes at a similar price point and has a good following and reputation.

 

[jlarose85]

Just a few of my thoughts... I like your thinking - a .308 is a great round! Regarding the rifles you mention, I have only shot the Tikka (I've owned a T3 in a few cals including .308, and currently have a CTR in .223). I've only handled the Waypoint and Bergara in a local shop.

From personal experience, I'd be inclined to purchase the CTR in .308. You're right, the factory stock isn't too great, but there are plenty of awesome options (Manners, AG composites, or even a KRG Bravo). With a CTR, you'd be ~ $1000 for the rifle and have some wiggle room for a stock, rings, etc. Toss in a $10 trigger spring and you'll be sitting pretty.

The Waypoint did seem like a nice rifle. Action was pretty smooth and trigger felt nice. I think it has good potential but still pretty new at this point. I've only handled the Bergara, but it seemed alright. Action wasn't nearly as smooth as Tikka, etc. but they seem to have a good following and reputation for accuracy.

A Seekins Havak Bravo in .308 could be a consideration as well - they've upgraded the bolt which is now much smoother and shoot very well. This should fall in the same price point as the Waypoint.

Appreciate the feedback! I'm thinking a "semi-custom" Tikka build might be a good option here or at least one I should look in to. What would be the reason for going with the CTR over one of the cheaper Tikka's if I'm putting it in a stock? It looks like my only savings there would be not having to thread the barrel and being able to reuse the CTR bottom metal with the Manners stock if I use their MCS-BDLTK mini chassis. Also looks like I could use their MCS-BDMTK mini chassis and use AICS mags instead of the crazy expensive Tikka ones although from what I can find this chassis is likely more expensive (couldn't find a price on the BDLTK on their website). I don't know of any gun smiths locally here in Baton Rouge to bed the action and all that so my thought was if I go that route would be to get one of the Manners mini chassis with the EH1 stock so I can just bolt in and go. The mini chassis is $360 so I'm not sure if that would be more or less than having a smith bed the action on the new stock or not. I do generally agree though that picking up a Tikka, putting it in a good stock and adding the lighter trigger springs would be a good set up. I do have to keep reminding myself that I don't need something capable of driving tacks at 1000 yards to kill whitetails at 300 yards and in. lol.

The Seekins guns are really nice and I've heard good things about them. Only problems with the Bravo is the 24" barrel length and it's almost 10# without a scope. That's a killer for me. The Havak Element is really nice but way out of my price range.

I have owned a Bergara Wilderness line and was not that impressed. Even dropped it into a few aftermarket stocks, one of which it did not fit into despite being touted as R700 compatible. Action was a little rough and didn't like to unlock when it got warm which I find typical of R700 clones. Of your list, I would put the Bergara in last place.

Tikka will always be a solid option, plenty of guys here can report on success with factory and semi custom builds based off that action and there is plenty of aftermarket support for barrel replacements etc. I personally run EH1's on my rifles with the mini chassis and love them. That being said, a basic Tikka plus a EH1 with chassis plus a new barrel will put you over $2k.

The reason the Waypoint is more expensive if that it is marketed to have all the stuff you would want to add to a more typically priced base rifle. If it has everything you want, then just buy it and be happy with it the way that it is. I haven't seen anything to indicated it has any issues, and it is made from good components. As mentioned above, the Seekins competes at a similar price point and has a good following and reputation.

That's interesting to hear about the Bergara. I haven't heard to many negative things about them from what I could find online. That's good to hear that the Tikka's with the EH1 and mini chassis works well. Like you said, donor gun, stock w/ chassis and barrel would be hard to stay under 2K but I figured I could just keep the Tikka barrel for the time being until it needs to be replaced or I have the funds to do so. The donor gun and Manners with the chassis and options I want should land me at right around $1700 if I go with the T3x lite compact and reuse the barrel which should be pretty good. Obviously a little more if I went with the CTR but like I said above, I'm not sure why I would go that route best I can tell. On your stocks are you using the chassis that take the AICS mags or are you reusing your Tikka bottom metal with their smaller Tikka chassis?

The Waypoint actually has everything I went into this wanting plus some. My hesitation is that it's a new action that doesn't have a long track record and I'm not sure what kind of aftermarket support it will have. I plan on keeping this rifle forever as my main hunting gun so if it needs a new barrel at some point or something else, I don't want to be stuck with an action that doesn't accept readily available stuff (not that anything is very readily available at this point)!

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

That's interesting to hear about the Bergara. I haven't heard to many negative things about them from what I could find online. That's good to hear that the Tikka's with the EH1 and mini chassis works well. Like you said, donor gun, stock w/ chassis and barrel would be hard to stay under 2K but I figured I could just keep the Tikka barrel for the time being until it needs to be replaced or I have the funds to do so. The donor gun and Manners with the chassis and options I want should land me at right around $1700 if I go with the T3x lite compact and reuse the barrel which should be pretty good. Obviously a little more if I went with the CTR but like I said above, I'm not sure why I would go that route best I can tell. On your stocks are you using the chassis that take the AICS mags or are you reusing your Tikka bottom metal with their smaller Tikka chassis?

The Waypoint actually has everything I went into this wanting plus some. My hesitation is that it's a new action that doesn't have a long track record and I'm not sure what kind of aftermarket support it will have. I plan on keeping this rifle forever as my main hunting gun so if it needs a new barrel at some point or something else, I don't want to be stuck with an action that doesn't accept readily available stuff (not that anything is very readily available at this point)!

I should have been more specific in dividing two ideas in my comment, I apologize. I don't run Tikkas, in fact I don't even buy factory actions anymore. What I do run are Zermatt/Bighorn actions which I now have in only EH1's with the mini chassis and those are set up to take AICS magazines. Generically speaking I would opt for AICS due to its wide range of compatible magazines on the market. Tikka bottom metals are non known for being great quality, and I have even seen where the front action screw pulled through the bottom metal on a 300WSM under recoil. I can't speak to the CTR magazines but the rest of Tikka's magazines are also of questionable quality and design.

This leads me to the thought if time is not of a constraint, and you are looking at chopping a gun down to the action anyways, it maybe worth looking at custom actions. Then you can build exactly what you want from the get go, and spread the cost out over time as parts and funds become available. Not to open another can of worms, but food for thought.

As far as the Waypoint goes, I believe it is more or less a 700 clone which makes barrels available and SA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You probably aren't getting that small brand level of customer service, but I wouldn't worry about options drying up. With either 6.5 or 308 in a hunting rifle you are not going to burn your barrel very quickly so it will be some time before having to swap would be a consideration. A competent gun smith should be able to thread a barrel for you without issue, even if it doesn't exactly match the R700 threads. Alternatively, Tikkas and custom actions presently offer pre-fit barrels, which make barrel swaps easier and cheaper, especially if you have the tools and the know how.

 

[R_Swanson]

OEM tikka mags are of questionable quality? I run AICS and CTR, it depends on the chassis/stock... But people were asking for a Bravo that runs CTR mags so often that KRG came out with that stock way faster than they said they would... Because of the following those mags have. Also, the CTR is pretty close to a TRG mag, which I also have no issues with in my TRG.

Although the OEM non-ctr mags are made from plastic, they feed ammo very consistently in my experience.

OP: Mini chassis without bottom metals are 159, ones with bottom metal are 360. Also, I don't know what your time frame is for this gun, but Manners runs about 9 months from order to delivery. Could even be longer.

Also, I'd save money and get a t3 lite if all you want is the action and trigger. I actually like the CTR stock for a "400 yards or less, lighter weight mountain rifle" gun I have because it's a fairly light and stiff stock and easy to change the LOP on... But don't buy it unless you have a plan for the stock, or want the barrel (CTR barrels are shooters) and then part out the rest of it.

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

OEM tikka mags are of questionable quality? I run AICS and CTR, it depends on the chassis/stock... But people were asking for a Bravo that runs CTR mags so often that KRG came out with that stock way faster than they said they would... Because of the following those mags have. Also, the CTR is pretty close to a TRG mag, which I also have no issues with in my TRG.

Although the OEM non-ctr mags are made from plastic, they feed ammo very consistently in my experience.

Yes. If I had to point out the single most complained about Tikka product I have heard of it would be those plastic factory mags, how they are expensive, and how they don't work well. That followed by tupperware stocks, plastic bolt shrouds, and soft recoil lugs that aren't fixed into the action. They may have improved them in the last few years with the T3X, but that was the original take.

As I said, I can't speak to the CTR magazines, which I am sure are just fine. However, way more brands make AICS compatible magazines so I would rather have that selection then be dependent on one imported product when our coasts looks like parking lots for container ships.

 

[R_Swanson]

Yes. If I had to point out the single most complained about Tikka product I have heard of it would be those plastic factory mags, how they are expensive, and how they don't work well. That followed by tupperware stocks, plastic bolt shrouds, and soft recoil lugs that aren't fixed into the action. They may have improved them in the last few years with the T3X, but that was the original take.

As I said, I can't speak to the CTR magazines, which I am sure are just fine. However, way more brands make AICS compatible magazines so I would rather have that selection then be dependent on one imported product when our coasts looks like parking lots for container ships.

Yeah, those plastic mags aren't cheap, and understood about the T3 vs T3x complaints. I must have misunderstood you about the CTR mags, my apologies.

Personally I have no issues with the mags, and the stocks don't bother me as I'd rather they put money into the action. As you said soft recoil lugs were a fair complaint on the T3, but this also seemed to lead many to assume its a poor setup in general, but it's the same as used on the TRG... no issues there with the long running TRG-42 in 338 Lapua, so I think it's pretty moot at this point.

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

Yeah, those plastic mags aren't cheap, and understood about the T3 vs T3x complaints. I must have misunderstood you about the CTR mags, my apologies.

Personally I have no issues with the mags, and the stocks don't bother me as I'd rather they put money into the action. As you said soft recoil lugs were a fair complaint on the T3, but this also seemed to lead many to assume its a poor setup in general, but it's the same as used on the TRG... no issues there with the long running TRG-42 in 338 Lapua, so I think it's pretty moot at this point.

No worries, I figured as much. I honestly haven't seriously looked at Tikkas in quite some time so my knowledge may certainly be out of date. Everything I touch turns to ash, so I always think it terms of reliability, durability, and replacement parts which is why I like having lots of options.

 

[Reelamin]

308 is a great cartridge.

 

[GSPRunner]

Just a few of my thoughts... I like your thinking - a .308 is a great round! Regarding the rifles you mention, I have only shot the Tikka (I've owned a T3 in a few cals including .308, and currently have a CTR in .223). I've only handled the Waypoint and Bergara in a local shop.

From personal experience, I'd be inclined to purchase the CTR in .308. You're right, the factory stock isn't too great, but there are plenty of awesome options (Manners, AG composites, or even a KRG Bravo). With a CTR, you'd be ~ $1000 for the rifle and have some wiggle room for a stock, rings, etc. Toss in a $10 trigger spring and you'll be sitting pretty.

The Waypoint did seem like a nice rifle. Action was pretty smooth and trigger felt nice. I think it has good potential but still pretty new at this point. I've only handled the Bergara, but it seemed alright. Action wasn't nearly as smooth as Tikka, etc. but they seem to have a good following and reputation for accuracy.

A Seekins Havak Bravo in .308 could be a consideration as well - they've upgraded the bolt which is now much smoother and shoot very well. This should fall in the same price point as the Waypoint.

The Bergara Premier series is amazing. I have an Approach in 6mm CM. It is my understanding that they are hand made by vets in Georgia. Mine shoots lights out and the craftsmanship is amazing.

 

[338 dude]

Finally ready to pull the trigger on a new rifle and wanted to get some thoughts and opinions from you guys. Have basically always hunted with an AR chambered in 6.8 SPC and this will be my first bolt gun. I've already done a ton of research but I'm stuck between a couple different options. I've settled on a .308 and I'd also like a 20" barrel since I'll be shooting suppressed. Not looking to spend more than 2K but less than that is better. Hunting distances on our property is from close up in the woods out to 300 yards max.

I initially had my eye on a Tikka CTR but hated the stock. Started looking at the Bergara's after that which was right when the Wilderness line was coming out and really liked the Terrain. It checked all the boxes for me on paper, went to a local gun shop that had one in 6.5CM and after putting my hands on it, I settled on the .308 version of that rifle. Just needed to save some money. Fast forward about a year and last week I went to the same local gun shop and got seriously derailed. Lol.

They had a 2020 Waypoint in 6.5CM and after handling that gun I'm seriously considering that instead. It's more expensive than the Bergara but it's SO much lighter and I just love the way it handles and I really like the vertical grip I think because I've always shot AR's. Still checks all the boxes I want and more and the .308 version with the steel barrel seems right up my ally and almost 2# lighter than the Bergara! The only thing that's making me shy away a little is it's a new action and I'm not sure about its accuracy and long term performance and all that. Everything I can find online (mostly from gun reviewers unfortunately) seems to point towards a great gun but I wanted to get y'all's thoughts on the Waypoint vs the Bergara but just in general as well. Is the Waypoint a Rem700 clone action just like the Bergara? Do y'all foresee and issues getting things like replacement or upgraded barrels for that action? If it's a Rem700 clone I'd assume not but I can't find that info anywhere. Is BSF doing their steel barrel too or just the carbon one?

This also sent me down the rabbit hole of maybe picking up a Bergara and putting it in an AG stock or a Manners EH1. That way I could have a proven reliable and accurate action & barrel in a carbon stock that would net about the same weight as the Waypoint. After thinking about that for a while I also considered maybe just picking up a Tikka (looks like you can get a T3x lite compact for around $700) threading the barrel and putting it in an EH1 with the Tikka mini chassis. That would probably get me close to the same territory as well.

So that's how I got where I'm at and I'm not really sure what route I should go now. Any input for you guys is greatly appreciated. I'm fairly new to the bolt action game so let me know what you think!

Tikka

 

[fnlights]

The Bergara Premier series is amazing. I have an Approach in 6mm CM. It is my understanding that they are hand made by vets in Georgia. Mine shoots lights out and the craftsmanship is amazing.

Second vote for the Premier series - I cannot speak to the Wilderness action being rough, but my Premier Highlander .300WM action is as smooth as they come.

Seems to shoot everything I put through it pretty well. Can't wait until I can get a reload worked out because I have no doubt it will shoot .5 moa or better.

I have not considered putting a Manners stock in my Highlander, but it might not be a bad idea honestly, I just am not sure how much of a weight saving that would be.