Looking for die purchase advice

[Petey308]

How many of you guys are running rifles with a plunger ejector for your precision loads?
I have run countless tests on my F-class rifles that runout on the bullet tip is less likely to cause a difference on target at 600 than the case misalignment from a plunger ejector.
My cases aren't a snug fit in the chamber…there's no need to be.
In regard to dies, I can achieve very good results on case sizing from RCBS dies, but I use Forster or Redding Comp Seaters, which align the bullets very well, I haven't measured bullet runout in a very long time.
I sort bullets and cases, but runout is far from the top of my list of what works.

I use RCBS, Redding and Forster dies. All of my pistol/handgun dies are Bonanza.
All of my RCBS and Forster dies have honed necks and altered expanders or custom expanders. My Redding dies have only ever needed polishing, the die necks run about .0025"-.003" under bullet diameter and the expanders run .0015"-.002" under.

Cheers.

As long as you have a strong and healthy firing pin spring, and you're only bumping shoulders .002", you don't need to worry about a plunger ejector misaligning your rounds. Once the firing pin hits the primer, it'll seat the case fully into the shoulder of the chamber and evenly align the bullet to the axis of the bore. Two thousandths of an inch is half the thickness of a sheet of paper, so that gap will be filled before the round even fires and remain filled once it dies fire, from the pressure. I guess if you're running more than .002" shoulder bump though, this could perhaps be an issue.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Who says the shoulders cone is perfectly aligned with the bore?
Does the body diameter count in your estimation of fit?
The body can easily move .005" off the centreline just from the plunger pushing on one side.
Sorry, but your .002" estimation of the shoulder fitting perfectly in the chamber is not always the case.

Cheers.

 

[Petey308]

Who says the shoulders cone is perfectly aligned with the bore?
Does the body diameter count in your estimation of fit?
The body can easily move .005" off the centreline just from the plunger pushing on one side.
Sorry, but your .002" estimation of the shoulder fitting perfectly in the chamber is not always the case.

Cheers.

It's a cone, essentially, so it will actually seat flush and evenly as the firing pin pushes the round forward and immediately fires before the plunger can overcome the firing pin spring tension and push the case back over.

And sure, if you're using a Forster bump die, you can absolutely bump only your shoulders and not touch the body of the case, leaving it to your chamber dimensions, and it won't be able to tip even before the firing pin strikes it.

 

[gohring3006]

Lots of what if's.
Is the bullet still in the case neck when it hits the lead and seals?
Is the bullet jammed?
Is it out if the case neck before everything seals up?
Is the brass crooked after firing with a plunger extractor?
Why does my new brass fire form almost perfectly strait?

 

[QuietTexan]

And the most important question typically asked after spending 47 hours and $10,000 on hand loading:

...why do the bullets still land 6" apart at 100 yards with my perfect loads

Don't let building the perfect arrow get in the way of practicing being the archer y'all.

 

[nksmfamjp]

RCBS

I will not buy RCBS dies again.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I tend to believe those that recommend rcBS, lee, hornady, and the like don't measure runout and/or don't have the shooting skills to see the difference. There a few exceptions within the manufacturers named above like the lee collet die, custom order hornady, national match dies from rcBS. The regular off the shelf stuff is like BSA scopes.
I have repeatedly seen much better precision with more expensive dies. Forster, Redding, Whidden are some very well made dies. The cost difference is negligible when you factor in how long-term dies are.

I measure runout correctly with the 21st Century tool. Hornady basic die sets make as good or better runout as Whidden, Redding, etc, according to my measurements.

Type S dies can have a bit more runout, but it is possible to get it within 0.002" with turned necks.

In die expanders setup right don't cause runout either, IME.

 

[Barrelnut]

Hornady basic die sets make as good or better runout as Whidden, Redding, etc, according to my measurements.

I find this to be true also. The Hornady FL sizing die works a lot like a Forster die, in the way it allows the expander to be adjusted until it is way up in the die where the neck is sized. If you adjust it way up there, it acts like an Forster die and starts straightening and expanding the neck, on the down stroke, when the neck is first coming out of the neck sizing part of the die. This gives very low runout. This is one of the great things about Forster dies. I don't know why Hornady never mentions this.

I also find that jamming bullets .015 or more ( like VLDs) almost always gives tighter groups than any sort of jump. The jamming is aligning the bullet perfectly to the bore, negating all of this runout, ejector side pressure, ect. as much as possible. So that lends credence too, when jumping bullets, the lower the runout and brass fit to the chamber, etc. the better.

 

[Wolf76]

I measure runout correctly with the 21st Century tool. Hornady basic die sets make as good or better runout as Whidden, Redding, etc, according to my measurements.

Type S dies can have a bit more runout, but it is possible to get it within 0.002" with turned necks.

In die expanders setup right don't cause runout either, IME.

I'm glad your getting great results with lesser priced dies. I haven't had the same experience, but would very much welcome a way to save a few dollars. With everything being more $$$ these days, we could all benefit from some ways to save some $$.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I'm glad your getting great results with lesser priced dies. I haven't had the same experience, but would very much welcome a way to save a few dollars. With everything being more $$$ these days, we could all benefit from some ways to save some $$.

I too would like to learn how to get my Redding 300 WSM die to produce 0.001" or less runout as I prefer the bushings. That said, 0.002" is good enough, IME.

I learned about Hornady accuracy by accident. I bought the 21st century tool. Then I was like Redding vs Forster, which is best. Redding was like 0.0025" worst case and Forster was like 0.0008" that day!

Then I'm like how are these crap Hornady 350 legend dies and I got like 0.001"! I have lots of Hornady dies and need to do more testing. That said, Forster and Redding are my favorites. Whidden is fine. Hornady is good enough. I do want to test more with Hornady custom dies. Remember, Hornady custom dies are custom. They are likely made with a low volume sizing reamer made based on your fired cases or reamer dwg. They are not high volume dies with worn out readers tuned to some average SAAMI chamber also made with worn reamers on old production equipment.

 

[Silent Hammer]

Lee dies here, and tried quite a few the past 50 years. The ultimate set is really nice.
Love the Collet neck die with mandrel, the FL die with stuck case remover BUILT-IN, the Factory Crimp die, just to add a little neck tension and finish fit handgun ammo, the bullet seater, not to mention they give you a scooper, shell holder and load data.
And not to mention the PRICE!
Measure everything all you want, the proof is in the groups! My run out comes in close with the others.
Just like you have to have close to 100% case powder fill ********.
I'll take the least amount of powder with close to Max velocity and get equal groups every time and save money!
Reloading is also about being frugal and recycling too!
And I love my Load Master!