long throated .270 wsm advice

[memyselfni]

Hi
i have a tikka t3 .270 wsm, and use it for mid range sika and red deer hunting here in new zealand, i have recently started handloading for it, and need some advice, the rifle has a very long throat, and i am having trouble getting the listed velocities out of it, can anybody help me with this? i am using ADI 2209/H4350 and Adi 2225/Retumbo, the most i am able to get with the ADI Max listed loads is 2950 with the 140 gr accubond, i would also like to work up a load for the 150 sst, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, i have been told to keep working up the loads and use the velocity as my guide, is this true? the primers on factory loads are more flattened than my handloads, and i am getting no pressure signs whatsoever.
any help will be appreciated
thanks in advance
Gary

 

[Iron Worker]

Look both ways before crossing

I'm a yank who owns a 270WSM . But mine is a Win Mod 70. Bullet seating depth in relation to rifling lands is critical ( Closer the better) But no doubt your not exceeding the functioning of magazine. So 4350 is a good start for 140 gr bullets .What is your charge? What book are you going by? So no pressure signs? Well then start increasing untill you get pressure signs ,just simply increase loads cautiously ever watching. I load 68.2 grs of Re#19 for 110 V-max I blew a primer out with this load in the field,so what!!!! Retumbo is way to slow.

 

[Shortmagman]

Gary,

Iron Workers advise is good. I also own a 270 WSM with a long throat. I can not get the listed velocity using the loading manuals as a guide. I was using IMR-4350 and getting only 3050ft/sec with Nosler 140 Accubonds at the max load listed in Nosler Manual #5. I switched to RL-22 and slowly moved up the powder charge. I am now getting 3150 ft/sec but I am over the max listed for RL-22 using a 140 grain bullet. However, I have no pressure signs and I can reload my brass many times without neck splits or stretched primer pockets, so I am not worried about the pressure.

According to Nosler Manual #6 you should be able to get 3200 ft/sec out of a 24 inch barreled 270 WSM using three different powders (Magnum, Viht N170,Magpro) I don't know if you can get either powder. I am very pleased with RL-22 for both accuracy and velocity. You might try it if you can get it in New Zealand. Good luck.

 

[memyselfni]

Hi
I am using 59 grains of 2209 , which is equivalent to H4350, the adi powders are the most easily available over here, and i am going by the ADI Manual, i am one grain over the max allready giving me just on 3000 ft/s on my chrony with a 140gr accubond and ssts with consistant MOA 3 shot accuracy at 100 yards. I also have a tin on ADI 2225, which is supposed to be the equivilant of retumbo and RL 25,how will this powder perform? how fast should i be able to drive a 150 grain bullet out of this rifle? also, i have a leupold vxIII 2.5-8x36 on this rifle because i do a lot of walking up mountains, do you think i will be able to 'click up' for distances to say 500 yards? will i have enough energy out there? (My longest shot so far was some feral turkeys with it at 300 yards),
thanks
Gary

 

[royinidaho]

Not to hijack the thread, but 270 related.

I get a kick out of the problems with the 270 WSM in practical use. I've shot a 270 Win for many years. In a 24" Douglas barrel the 130s and 140s were loaded to 3190 fps and were what I considered max loads. But I still got 10 to 20 firings per case.

When that barrel wore out it was replaced with a Lilja 27" number 4 contour. It shoots the 140s at 3200 fps. It could go faster but I stopped at 3200 as I figure that's fast enough for a 270 Win. Jury is still out on case life but is at 5 so far.

Accuracy of the Douglas was 3/4 MOA accuracy of the Lilja is beyond description that is, you wouldn't believe me if I told ya.

The Norma powder 204/205/MRP gave best velocities with lowest pressures. However due to its unavailability I went with 4350. Pressures were high and case life short.

RL-22 turned out to be the best available both accuracy wise and pressure wise. Also I use a non-magnum primer which made the most difference in accuracy.

Just chiming in.

 

[memyselfni]

Factory ammo

ok so i had a range session yesterday, i shot rounds loaded with winchester cases, federal 210 primers, 58gr of 2209/H4350 and a 140gr sst seated to just fit in mag. i got an average of 2939 fps, with an extreme spread of 51 fps. cases look fine, primers were ok, not as flattened as my factory ammunition, but accuracy was very average, around 2MOA i shot winchester 150gr power points for an average of 3169 fps and an extreme spread of 19 fps with 1MOA . what powders would people suggest to clone this load? should i continue working up my handloads a half a grain at a time? im hoping for 3250 with the 140gr accubond, and sst.
thanks in advance
Gary

 

[Iron Worker]

W-W factory stuff didn't blow up your rifle.

Yes continue increasing your powder charges by 1/2 gr. Hey you will have other pressure signs that can't be ignored before you turn your rifle into a bomb. If you blow out a primer your way too hot,but still a significant distance from blowing up your rifle.2,950 fps for a 140 gr bullets is dang slow.

 

[Moman]

My son is shooting that same load with the exception of the primer. We are using Federal 215 Magnum primers in this load and averaging 3030 fps on a four shot string out of a 23" bbl. Do you have access to magnum primers? Try them if you do, but start low and work your load back up to max.

 

[glassman]

memyselfni,
I am loading for this same rifle as yours, except it belongs to friend of mine.

But here is what I've found in searching for loads:
"150 gr Bullet"
60 grs of H4831 will give close to 2960 (Speer)
60 grs of H4831 will give close to 2960 (Hodgon)
60 grs of H4831 will give close to 2960 (Nosler)*
67.5C of H1000 will give close to 3000 (Hodgon)
63.3 of RL22 will give close to 3000 (Sierra)*
*Most of their loads are usually off compared to other books.

"150 Barnes X"
67 grs of RL22 will give close to 3010 (Barnes)

Yes to the Mag primers...Usually once you go over 65 gr in any cal, then the magnum rule applies

Hope this helps some what..

 

[glassman]

Hi
the rifle has a very long throat, and i am having trouble getting the listed velocities out of it, can anybody help me with this?
Gary

You say a long throat? I don't understand how a long throat can stop you from getting high velocites? If you have a "short throat", then you would see "lower" velocities, because you will be seating the bullet deeper, hence less room for more powder.

I like my rifles with "long throats"....as long as the bullet can touch the rifling's and still fit the magazine.

 

[memyselfni]

long throat

yes it has a long throat, i cant get anywhere near the lands with the bullets fitting in the mag, a dummy round loaded to just touch, will not even cycle thru the action, i have been told that the long throat reduces pressure, and because of this, velocity. I am posting to find out if i can just work my loads up past max to combat this? as this is what i have been told i can do, will try the mag primers tho
Gary

 

[MagnumManiac]

Hi
I am using 59 grains of 2209 , which is equivalent to H4350, the adi powders are the most easily available over here, and i am going by the ADI Manual, i am one grain over the max allready giving me just on 3000 ft/s on my chrony with a 140gr accubond and ssts with consistant MOA 3 shot accuracy at 100 yards. I also have a tin on ADI 2225, which is supposed to be the equivilant of retumbo and RL 25,how will this powder perform? how fast should i be able to drive a 150 grain bullet out of this rifle? also, i have a leupold vxIII 2.5-8x36 on this rifle because i do a lot of walking up mountains, do you think i will be able to 'click up' for distances to say 500 yards? will i have enough energy out there? (My longest shot so far was some feral turkeys with it at 300 yards),
thanks
Gary

I live in Australia,and I think I can help you out,AR 2225 IS Retumbo,that's what it's sold as in the US.AR 2217 IS H1000,same as before.I believe this is the slowest powder you should be using in your 270WSM.(I have a 270 Weatherby) and I heed my own advice!
AR 2225 is WAY too slow for your case capacity!
You should be able to get just shy of 3100fps with 150gr bullets.
Try a load of AR 2217 with a start load of 71gr-max load of 73gr with 130 gr bullets.
AR 2217 start load of 66gr-max load of 70gr with 140gr bullets.
AR 2217 start load of 64gr-max load of 67.5gr with 150gr bullets.
If Reloader 25 is available in New Zealand,I would also give it a try.
The charge weights above for AR 2217 can be used for Reloader 25 with no problems,as long as you work up from below max by no more than 5%.
Now if you have a long throat you MAY be able to increase your loads until you get high pressure signs;ejector marks on case head,flattened primers,blown primers,sticky bolt lift(this may be NORMAL in WSM rifles) and larger than normal expansion of case body just ahead of the extraction groove.This symptom will most likely appear when you full length size your cases(recommended for WSM brass).
The above loads can be found in Nick Harveys' Practical Reloading Manual,I'm sure it's available in New Zealand,this one is the 8th edition.
The size and magnification of your scope really plays no part in your ability to shoot at longer ranges.You need to sight your rifle for it's maximum point blank range (MPBR).This varies with each load and bullet weight,but if you want to take shots at 500 yds you will generally need to sight in 3"-3.5" high at 100 yds to have a drop of no more than 12"-16" at 500 yds.which negates a backline hold on Reds and Sika.
Harveys manual can give you the MPBR for your rifle,it's in the back of the book!
Keep increasing your loads until you get signs of high pressure,then back off a few grains.
MagnumManiac
gun)

 

[MagnumManiac]

You say a long throat? I don't understand how a long throat can stop you from getting high velocites? If you have a "short throat", then you would see "lower" velocities, because you will be seating the bullet deeper, hence less room for more powder.

I like my rifles with "long throats"....as long as the bullet can touch the rifling's and still fit the magazine.

A long throat DECREASES pressure because the bullet has further to travel before it engraves the rifling,a short throat INCREASES pressure because of the opposite.Simply put,a long throat increases capacity giving you less pressure.This is how Weatherby rifles take such large doses of powder,because they are 'freebored' much further than conventional rifles.
What you describe above is actually 'normal' throating,if you can seat bullets out to touch lands,then you have a normal throat in most cases.
The magazine length in a WSM size action is the determining factor in OAL of the cartridge,which is very short against 'normal' length actions,this is why this rifle has a 'long throat'.
MagnumManiac
gun)

 

[memyselfni]

Mpbr

MagnumManiac,
thank you for your advice, it has been the most relavent help i have recieved so far, i will try some 2217 when i get a chance to pick some up, will i not be able to match the speed of factory loads with the 150 Gr sst? or am i better off with the 140 ab do you think, i understand the MPBR theory, i have sierra infinity on my computer and use that when sighting in my rifles, your data is the same as the data in the ADI smokeless powders handloaders guide, and i will give it a try, thanks for your help it is much appreciated. i cant wait to get this rifle sorted, i am going to upgrade to a Bushnell elite 6500 when i get the chance, these scopes sound excellent for my use, where i might have a 10-20 yard shot in the Manuka one minute, then a 350-400 yard shot across a gully the next.
thanks
Gary