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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Leupold Comparison
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<blockquote data-quote="John Burns" data-source="post: 307178" data-attributes="member: 2164"><p>AJ brings up some good points but I have to stick with my VX-3 comparison. </p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 22px">Warning biased opinion follows</span>:</p><p></p><p>I would use many of the same points in a VX-3 vs MK IV comparison. </p><p></p><p>Extra weight for no extra performance. I did check the Nightforce website and AJ is right that there is not a full pound of difference but 13 oz's between the VX-3 (17 oz) and the NXS (30 oz).</p><p></p><p>For me in a 10.5 lbs rifle that weight works much better in the barrel. In other words I can have a 4 lb barrel instead of a 3 lb 3 oz barrel and keep the weight below 10.5 LBS.</p><p></p><p>For me extra eye relief is a disadvantage due to the ring placement on the tube. I have to move my scopes as far forward as possible to obtain proper eye position so any extra eye relief slows me down under pressure. Plus the extra length of the eyepiece of the NXS compounds the problem.</p><p></p><p>A one piece rail mount can solve this issue but this just adds more weight and makes access to the loading port more difficult.</p><p></p><p>I never have a problem with not enough eye relief on the VX-3 but I don't shoot rifles with big recoil from prone either. If the rifle kicks hard enough to hit me while shooting a VX-3 I won't be able to use it with real precision anyway so it is a moot point in my applications.</p><p></p><p>The 7mm 180gr @ 3000fps in a 10.5 lb gun is the limit of my ability to shoot well (sometimes on a good day) and I have never been scoped by this combination using a VX-3.</p><p></p><p>One thing I forgot to mention is the availability of the best lens caps in the world for the VX-3. Unless you have used the Alumina flip-ups you don't know what you are missing. The Alumina flip–ups fold down flat on the objective and eye piece and do not interfere with your hat brim during recoil. Way cool.</p><p></p><p>I have never been a fan of the illuminated reticle so for me that has never been a consideration. Even when using a spotlight on coyotes I prefer a properly designed plain reticle and have killed quite a few coyotes under just moonlight and snow with my reticle, but to each his own.</p><p></p><p>I would agree the NP-R1 is a better long range reticle than anything available stock from Leupold but (and this will come as a shocker) I think my reticle is even better. I can easily break wind holds down to ¼ MOA with speed and precision. I just wish I could read the wind to ½ MOA all the time (OK more like I wish I could read it to under 2 MOA every time).</p><p></p><p>Because I use reticle hold off for windage I really like a low profile windage turret. This is a major advantage if you ever have to carry the system on a horse or (preferred) a mule. To the best of my knowledge there are not any commercially available saddle scabbards that can accommodate the Nightforce NXS with the 50mm or bigger objective. You can always have a custom scabbard made but it would be very bulky and uncomfortable for both rider and mule (or horse if that is all you have to ride).</p><p></p><p>If you ever think you might go on a wilderness hunt take this into consideration.</p><p></p><p>Since I direct dial the first rotation I really like the added adjustment per rotation and on my 7mm I get right to 1000yds in the first rotation. This gun has 68 MOA up from the 200yd zero and will dial on to slightly over 2000yds (busting rocks and steel) under most conditions I shoot in.</p><p></p><p>One advantage no one has mentioned yet for the Nightforce is the zero stop. The stock Leupold does not have this feature (My Greybull Precision does have a zero stop) and while it adds to the expense of the Nightforce at least you can get it. </p><p></p><p>I would say if I was building a gun for static type hunting and carry weight was not a factor and I wanted to use this gun regularly beyond 1000yds and I would never need it in a hurry then I would choose a scope with more magnification and would look seriously at the Nightforce products because of the large amount of adjustment relative to high magnification and AJ's choice of the reticles, the NP-R1.</p><p></p><p>It really is a question of the application. I consider my self a hunter that sometimes shoots at long range (OK maybe more than sometimes)</p><p></p><p>If "Long Range Hunting" is your only goal you might choose a different optic than I choose and a different rifle to go under it combined with different techniques for trajectory and windage compensation.</p><p></p><p>AJ,</p><p></p><p>What is your opinion about first or second focal plane?</p><p></p><p>Do you direct dial, chart dial (either count clicks or MOA), PDA Dial or use reticle holdover for trajectory compensation?</p><p></p><p>How about wind?</p><p></p><p>Are there any S&B fans out there?</p><p></p><p>Performance sells</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Burns, post: 307178, member: 2164"] AJ brings up some good points but I have to stick with my VX-3 comparison. [SIZE="6"]Warning biased opinion follows[/SIZE]: I would use many of the same points in a VX-3 vs MK IV comparison. Extra weight for no extra performance. I did check the Nightforce website and AJ is right that there is not a full pound of difference but 13 oz’s between the VX-3 (17 oz) and the NXS (30 oz). For me in a 10.5 lbs rifle that weight works much better in the barrel. In other words I can have a 4 lb barrel instead of a 3 lb 3 oz barrel and keep the weight below 10.5 LBS. For me extra eye relief is a disadvantage due to the ring placement on the tube. I have to move my scopes as far forward as possible to obtain proper eye position so any extra eye relief slows me down under pressure. Plus the extra length of the eyepiece of the NXS compounds the problem. A one piece rail mount can solve this issue but this just adds more weight and makes access to the loading port more difficult. I never have a problem with not enough eye relief on the VX-3 but I don’t shoot rifles with big recoil from prone either. If the rifle kicks hard enough to hit me while shooting a VX-3 I won’t be able to use it with real precision anyway so it is a moot point in my applications. The 7mm 180gr @ 3000fps in a 10.5 lb gun is the limit of my ability to shoot well (sometimes on a good day) and I have never been scoped by this combination using a VX-3. One thing I forgot to mention is the availability of the best lens caps in the world for the VX-3. Unless you have used the Alumina flip-ups you don’t know what you are missing. The Alumina flip–ups fold down flat on the objective and eye piece and do not interfere with your hat brim during recoil. Way cool. I have never been a fan of the illuminated reticle so for me that has never been a consideration. Even when using a spotlight on coyotes I prefer a properly designed plain reticle and have killed quite a few coyotes under just moonlight and snow with my reticle, but to each his own. I would agree the NP-R1 is a better long range reticle than anything available stock from Leupold but (and this will come as a shocker) I think my reticle is even better. I can easily break wind holds down to ¼ MOA with speed and precision. I just wish I could read the wind to ½ MOA all the time (OK more like I wish I could read it to under 2 MOA every time). Because I use reticle hold off for windage I really like a low profile windage turret. This is a major advantage if you ever have to carry the system on a horse or (preferred) a mule. To the best of my knowledge there are not any commercially available saddle scabbards that can accommodate the Nightforce NXS with the 50mm or bigger objective. You can always have a custom scabbard made but it would be very bulky and uncomfortable for both rider and mule (or horse if that is all you have to ride). If you ever think you might go on a wilderness hunt take this into consideration. Since I direct dial the first rotation I really like the added adjustment per rotation and on my 7mm I get right to 1000yds in the first rotation. This gun has 68 MOA up from the 200yd zero and will dial on to slightly over 2000yds (busting rocks and steel) under most conditions I shoot in. One advantage no one has mentioned yet for the Nightforce is the zero stop. The stock Leupold does not have this feature (My Greybull Precision does have a zero stop) and while it adds to the expense of the Nightforce at least you can get it. I would say if I was building a gun for static type hunting and carry weight was not a factor and I wanted to use this gun regularly beyond 1000yds and I would never need it in a hurry then I would choose a scope with more magnification and would look seriously at the Nightforce products because of the large amount of adjustment relative to high magnification and AJ's choice of the reticles, the NP-R1. It really is a question of the application. I consider my self a hunter that sometimes shoots at long range (OK maybe more than sometimes) If “Long Range Hunting” is your only goal you might choose a different optic than I choose and a different rifle to go under it combined with different techniques for trajectory and windage compensation. AJ, What is your opinion about first or second focal plane? Do you direct dial, chart dial (either count clicks or MOA), PDA Dial or use reticle holdover for trajectory compensation? How about wind? Are there any S&B fans out there? Performance sells [/QUOTE]
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