Lemon Laws - Comments Please

[Duffman]

Does your truck have a problem?

 

[Sealesniper]

I had a NEW truck in 2001 that was a LEMON. It spent 10.5 months of the first year I owned it at the dealership. I contacted lawyers and worked with dealer and manufacturer. Lemon Law was never put into effect, as each failure did not "constitute" the full definition of Lemon Law in NC. Issues were from faulty sensors, failed reaction shell 2x, rear brakes that locked and pulled truck off road, locked seat belts that would not pull out for use, door lock failures, window motor failures, gauge cluster failures, engine knock, starter issues and a menagerie of other smaller stuff. The last straw for me was when the rear brakes locked going around a curve with that took me off the road. I did not wreck, and luckily curve was to the left so I went into a shallow ditch and field to the right, but if the curve had been to the right I would have been going head on into the other truck coming at me. That driver stopped and witnessed the event for me in documentations, as did the police. Both rear tires had locked from me tapping the brakes and I had solid rubber marks on the road and torn up grass and dirt where I had crossed the ditch. Distance traveled from skid marks proved I was going 5-7 miles an hour UNDER the speed limit. I sold the truck wholesale after that.

Anyway, long story short (sorry), I had ZERO luck with Lemon Law with and without an attorney. Cost me a lot of money, time and heart ache. I would say, if truck still running well, trade it and move on.

 

[Mrvmax]

Could just send an oil sample from your engine To Blackstone Lab (260) 744-2380 only like $35 bucks for the standard analysis and see if your rig is one with a bad motor. If it's not making metal you got a good one. Still don't think Toyota's going to try to fix a problem with a BS story.

This is a great idea, I have used them in the past and you will be able to tell without a doubt if there is metal in your oil and you are affected. Get an oil analysis first.

 

[cajun]

Well, thanks. That's why I'm trying to put things in perspective in terms of the actual recall numbers (98K) and the amount of actual failures. Still, 1,000 units is somewhat indicative of a pervasive problem. The root of the issue, IMHO is CAFE standards strangling these engines and trying to squeeze more power out of small displacement. None of the manufactures are immune and you can point to other recalls with the other major brands over the last 5 year. It just sucks that I've driven Toyotas over 2 million miles over the past 35 years without a single mechanical failure and now we have this. It's indicative of the times and it's sad.

This is true. Cafe standards have ruined the chevy small block with that dod crap. Ford and yoda have gone twin turbo's in 6's now. Is that what you have?

 

[1mechanic]

Well, because most engineers I know tell me that metal debris contamination would be random with respect to the bearing affected. In these cases, it's always the main bearing. That and Toyota has a lot to loose in this situation at a cost of 28k per unit warranty costs if they just swap out the short blocks. In my opinion, they should be doing crate engine replacements. We shall see.

Actually Kia and Hyundai share some engines and they had a problem similar to this. The engine block was not cleaned properly and would drop metal debris into the oil over time. It was small enough to go through the pump, filter and make its way to the bearings, the main bearings are the first to receive oil and will embed into the bearing material and take out the crank but the rest of the engine will have some metal contamination so a short block is not the answer unless the heads and all other parts need to be cleaned and checked.

Had a customer that had a Kia engine locked up at 99,960 miles she was lucky Kia took care of it with her 100,000 mile warranty.

 

[Muddyboots]

Lemon Laws can be difficult but you also have a bigger baseball bat with NHTSA to file safety complaint if the issues are related to vehicle safety such as brakes, electrical etc. No manufacturer wants one of these and can be an interesting chip with a balky dealer. They don't want to be brought in as non responsive to a potential NHTSA safety issue.

Cause now a vehicle manufacturer may be looking at a major safety recall which certainly does not help with potential buyers.

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

 

[YZ-80]

Lemon Laws can be difficult but you also have a bigger baseball bat with NHTSA to file safety complaint if the issues are related to vehicle safety such as brakes, electrical etc. No manufacturer wants one of these and can be an interesting chip with a balky dealer. They don't want to be brought in as non responsive to a potential NHTSA safety issue.

Cause now a vehicle manufacturer may be looking at a major safety recall which certainly does not help with potential buyers.

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

Toyota has actually named it a safety problem because engines can fail in circumstances where power is needed to avert the hazard, so your post is well taken. Something to consider for sure.

 

[YZ-80]

Actually Kia and Hyundai share some engines and they had a problem similar to this. The engine block was not cleaned properly and would drop metal debris into the oil over time. It was small enough to go through the pump, filter and make its way to the bearings, the main bearings are the first to receive oil and will embed into the bearing material and take out the crank but the rest of the engine will have some metal contamination so a short block is not the answer unless the heads and all other parts need to be cleaned and checked.

Had a customer that had a Kia engine locked up at 99,960 miles she was lucky Kia took care of it with her 100,000 mile warranty.

Yes, this is interesting. I'd have to agree tolerances are tight so there is some merit to the argument here. Most think that Toyota will offer the short block replacement as a remedy but without the cleaning and inspection of the top end, should one accept that?

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

Yes, this is interesting. I'd have to agree tolerances are tight so there is some merit to the argument here. Most think that Toyota will offer the short block replacement as a remedy but without the cleaning and inspection of the top end, should one accept that?

This will come down to the mechanic performing the job. Will he take the time. And if Toy takes this into consideration when doing short block. The mechanic usually works flat rate. And some jobs don't pay that well for the amount of worked involved. I used to do the head gaskets on the 3.0 & 3.4 l in 4 1/2 Hrs. It paid 11 hrs warranty. Customer pay was around 22 hrs. During the height of this recall. I would also collect an extra $50.00 for each vehicle I did. Just to get them done. I was usually doing 2 a day. Some days were 10 + hours. The heads on these did not get checked for compression leaks or anything else. And as far as I know I only had 2 come back. One for a unplugged A/C compressor. I believe I must not have pushed the plug in far enough. And it eventually came out. And another was for a knock sensor. That is located under the plenum in the block. And after that job knock sensors started getting replaced by Toy. Because I refused to do another job w/out replacing. Since I had to eat the time on the job that came back. The wires would get brittle on the sensor from the heat. I worked at Hanover & Kuhns Toyota. Hanover did not have a way to cook blocks or heads. But Kuhns did at my time. I would be surprised to see if they still have it or use it. Not many did when I was there. I cooked a few heads & blocks when I was there. It was worth the time to remove the sludge & oil deposits on certain engines. If I was you I would push for a long block and nothing less. If you need to have the recall done. I believe this will save everyone some future headaches. You & the dealership.

 

[YZ-80]

This is true. Cafe standards have ruined the chevy small block with that dod crap. Ford and yoda have gone twin turbo's in 6's now. Is that what you have?

Affirmative

 

[bfarms]

Well, because most engineers I know tell me that metal debris contamination would be random with respect to the bearing affected. In these cases, it's always the main bearing. That and Toyota has a lot to loose in this situation at a cost of 28k per unit warranty costs if they just swap out the short blocks. In my opinion, they should be doing crate engine replacements. We shall see.

Yes. Contamination isn't picky on which bearing lol. Built a 5.9, made 2 dyno runs and maybe 150 street miles and ate rods and mains. ( All of them, but some worse than others). Wasn't my first rodeo on building one and upon tear down the wrist pins had stuck in the bushings and dropped brass in the pan. Carrillo knew they had an issue and sent me a new set of rods with updated bushings. Didn't pay for anything else though lol

 

[hesse]

Look for a lawyer that specializes in lemon law cases in the state that you're in because there are so many different things you have to prove . video weird or oddball things happening. Document document

 

[g7777777]

Claim it …, they might settle

 

[FireFlyFishing]

And this is why I'm keeping my 06 Ram with the 5.9. The new trucks suck and are expensive too.