Learing to shoot light rifles.

[ducky]

Just a little backstory, in September of 2015 I had an accident that left me with a fused right ankle.

This has left me with some mobility issues especially on steep or uneven terrain. My ankle just doesn't flex, and my right leg isn't as strong as it used to be. So I'm working on myself to get lighter, as well as my gear as I want to be able to hunt further into wilderness areas.

So for my rifle after handling a few, base weight and ultimately price played a huge factor. The Howa Superlite won out over the CA Mesa and Ridgeline FFT rifles. Advertised weight for this rifle is 7 lbs 4 oz, but it weighs 7 lbs 10.6 oz on my scale. I bought it chambered in .308 Win as I'll give it a slight advantage over the 6.5 Creedmoor in versatility at the 400 +/- yards I expect to use this rifle out to.

I manged to keep the total weight to 7 lbs 7.1 oz with Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 4-20X50 MIL and Omega 300 suppressor.

I sighted it in with some cheap PPU 150gr SP ammunition that I have, and used it to do barrel break in per Howa's instructions. Then switched to some Hornady and Winchester 150 gr ammunition. I couldn't get the rifle to group better than 2 MOA for three shots, both of these shoot right at MOA in my M700 and my Daughter's Howa 1500. Adding the suppressor just had the same ammunition shooting 4-8 MOA at 100 yards.

So I started asking for help. Mainly asking if anyone knew the torque values as I had mine pretty light due to the polymer magazine well and no other information in the manual except "tight". I also got a few other suggestions on shooting technique and ammunition. I also got scolded for having my sling swivels still attached.

So I got some Federal GMM 168 grain ammunition. Torqued the front screw to 35 in-lbs, and the rear to 30 in-lbs per LSI recommended specs. Removed the sling swivels and went shooting.

Well the rifle didn't shoot smaller 3 shot groups with the Fed GMM. It did however, shoot more consistent stacking the second 3 shot group almost identical to the first. So I decided to adjust my scope .6 MIL right and up and shoot the next 3 shot group.

I was really disappointed when the scope didn't move correctly. I've been really impressed with the Athlon scopes I tried on my rimfire rifles, but the first roud hitting low and no movement right was not what I expected. I also shot a 10th round single load after the shots 8 and 9 landed close to the elevation I wanted.

So I put my rifle on a diet, by grabbing the NF 3-10X42 SHV off of my M700 .308 Win. This made my weight go down to 6 lbs 3 oz unsuppressed, and 7 lbs 0.9 oz suppressed.

I sighted back in with the PPU ammunition. Shot the Fed GMM and shot one 3 shot group at 1.25 MOA. Then went to the Hornady AW and Winchester ammunition again. I was holding 1.5 MOA groups for three shots, and I thought maybe the barrel is settling in. So I tried shooting suppressed again.

This time the rifle (or I) did much better suppressed. The Winchester ammunition was nothing to write about, 3 MOA was about it for 6 rounds. However, I shot my first almost MOA 3 shot group with the Hornady AW ammunition. I adjusted the scope and shot 3 more shots for another almost MOA group. If I were to overlay both groups I'd probably be closer to 2 MOA, but thats a huge improvement over the previous groups suppressed with both ammunition types.

I think I'll eventually have this rifle shooting the way I want, 1.5 MOA or better from field positions. I'm just not sure where to go next. Do I shoot it more and see if I get better, or find a factory load it likes? Or since it is still a bone stock rifle do I pillar it, bed the action, and free float the barrel?

 

[xsn10s]

Just a little backstory, in September of 2015 I had an accident that left me with a fused right ankle.

This has left me with some mobility issues especially on steep or uneven terrain. My ankle just doesn't flex, and my right leg isn't as strong as it used to be. So I'm working on myself to get lighter, as well as my gear as I want to be able to hunt further into wilderness areas.

So for my rifle after handling a few, base weight and ultimately price played a huge factor. The Howa Superlite won out over the CA Mesa and Ridgeline FFT rifles. Advertised weight for this rifle is 7 lbs 4 oz, but it weighs 7 lbs 10.6 oz on my scale. I bought it chambered in .308 Win as I'll give it a slight advantage over the 6.5 Creedmoor in versatility at the 400 +/- yards I expect to use this rifle out to.

I manged to keep the total weight to 7 lbs 7.1 oz with Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 4-20X50 MIL and Omega 300 suppressor.

I sighted it in with some cheap PPU 150gr SP ammunition that I have, and used it to do barrel break in per Howa's instructions. Then switched to some Hornady and Winchester 150 gr ammunition. I couldn't get the rifle to group better than 2 MOA for three shots, both of these shoot right at MOA in my M700 and my Daughter's Howa 1500. Adding the suppressor just had the same ammunition shooting 4-8 MOA at 100 yards.

So I started asking for help. Mainly asking if anyone knew the torque values as I had mine pretty light due to the polymer magazine well and no other information in the manual except "tight". I also got a few other suggestions on shooting technique and ammunition. I also got scolded for having my sling swivels still attached.

So I got some Federal GMM 168 grain ammunition. Torqued the front screw to 35 in-lbs, and the rear to 30 in-lbs per LSI recommended specs. Removed the sling swivels and went shooting.

Well the rifle didn't shoot smaller 3 shot groups with the Fed GMM. It did however, shoot more consistent stacking the second 3 shot group almost identical to the first. So I decided to adjust my scope .6 MIL right and up and shoot the next 3 shot group.

I was really disappointed when the scope didn't move correctly. I've been really impressed with the Athlon scopes I tried on my rimfire rifles, but the first roud hitting low and no movement right was not what I expected. I also shot a 10th round single load after the shots 8 and 9 landed close to the elevation I wanted.

So I put my rifle on a diet, by grabbing the NF 3-10X42 SHV off of my M700 .308 Win. This made my weight go down to 6 lbs 3 oz unsuppressed, and 7 lbs 0.9 oz suppressed.

I sighted back in with the PPU ammunition. Shot the Fed GMM and shot one 3 shot group at 1.25 MOA. Then went to the Hornady AW and Winchester ammunition again. I was holding 1.5 MOA groups for three shots, and I thought maybe the barrel is settling in. So I tried shooting suppressed again.

This time the rifle (or I) did much better suppressed. The Winchester ammunition was nothing to write about, 3 MOA was about it for 6 rounds. However, I shot my first almost MOA 3 shot group with the Hornady AW ammunition. I adjusted the scope and shot 3 more shots for another almost MOA group. If I were to overlay both groups I'd probably be closer to 2 MOA, but thats a huge improvement over the previous groups suppressed with both ammunition types.

I think I'll eventually have this rifle shooting the way I want, 1.5 MOA or better from field positions. I'm just not sure where to go next. Do I shoot it more and see if I get better, or find a factory load it likes? Or since it is still a bone stock rifle do I pillar it, bed the action, and free float the barrel?

Sounds like you figured it out to a scope issue. Did you clean the rail screw holes prior to mounting the rail? I'd consider bedding the rail, or at least check if it needs it. And depending on how many rounds you shot I'd keep shooting it to see if the action will settle into the stock prior to bedding and/ or free floating. So maybe shoot 200-300 rounds before changing anything. Only because it seems to be improving and you're close to you 1.5 MOA goal.

 

[xsn10s]

Also I think I'd practice shooting your new rifle out to 400 yards. It could be that you're just not used to the rifle yet. Practicing out to your range limits might give you some more insight on the rifle's performance.

 

[ducky]

Sounds like you figured it out to a scope issue. Did you clean the rail screw holes prior to mounting the rail? I'd consider bedding the rail, or at least check if it needs it. And depending on how many rounds you shot I'd keep shooting it to see if the action will settle into the stock prior to bedding and/ or free floating. So maybe shoot 200-300 rounds before changing anything. Only because it seems to be improving and you're close to you 1.5 MOA goal.

I cleaned and degreased all screws and holes on the mount and rings before mounting the scope. The rail is solid, I don't think there will be a need to bed it. However, it was rubbing originally on the bolt handle.

It was expensive to fix, $25 to have it faced of a few thousands and re-coated plus six hours of drive time (2 round trips to GS). You can see where it was rubbing in this picture.

.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Have you shot rifles this light before? It seems you have to hang onto them a bit. Do you reload? Haven't always had the best luck with factory ammo.

 

[adk hunter]

Sipping my second cup of coffee, my brain still wasn't ready for that x-ray...
And I thought my ankle was sore this morning.
Whew!

 

[Mark37082]

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your new rifle. There is nothing more frustrating than getting a rifle accuracy issue resolved. I've never shot a rifle this light before, but I'm not sure your issues are related to weight. Hopefully you will get it figured out. I am not sure I would have the patience to to resolve these issues.

 

[xsn10s]

I cleaned and degreased all screws and holes on the mount and rings before mounting the scope. The rail is solid, I don't think there will be a need to bed it. However, it was rubbing originally on the bolt handle.

It was expensive to fix, $25 to have it faced of a few thousands and re-coated plus six hours of drive time (2 round trips to GS). You can see where it was rubbing in this picture.

.

Hmm okay. That's the factory rail right?

 

[doctorjj]

How much free float clearance does your barrel have along its entire length?

 

[ducky]

Sipping my second cup of coffee, my brain still wasn't ready for that x-ray...
And I thought my ankle was sore this morning.
Whew!

It was a pretty traumatic experience and could have been much worse. I fell from about 20 feet and it was life changing to say the least. Worst thing was this happened a week before an elk hunt I burned 15 points on. Luckily it was before Colorado changed the rules and I was able to get my points back.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your new rifle. ....., but I'm not sure your issues are related to weight. Hopefully you will get it figured out. I am not sure I would have the patience to to resolve these issues.

I'm pretty sure I'm 75% the cause of my issues with this rifle. If I can get it to shoot with the suppressor I'll be happy. I really don't want to use a muzzle brake, as the suppressor greatly changes how the rifle acts at the bench. I know a brake would fix most of my issues, I'm just not fond of them.

This isn't my first time with a light rifle. I have a 7.5 lbs M70 .30-06 with a 2.5-8X36 VX3 in Talley light weights, and I've never been better than 1.25-1.5 MOA with it as well. I found a SS M70 Classic barreled action, and then picked up a used McMillan Hunters Edge stock and had it pillar and glass bedded by Kevin Weaver. It's a joy to hunt with, but abusive from the bench. Especially when I shoot 180 grain + bullets.

 

[ridgewalker]

I am not familiar with the Howa, but make certain the barrel has plenty of clearance to the stock.
When shooting it rest the stock close as you can to the action.
Most of the light weight stocks are a bit flexible.
You seem to be improving it bit by bit. Keep it up.
I'll be watching and waiting to see your success!

 

[Mark37082]

It is amazing what plates, screws, and a good orthopedic surgeon can do. My right ankle has all kinds of hardware in it. Mobility and flexibility improved over time. Your photos bring back some unpleasant memories.

 

[txaggie1]

So this is just my experience for what it's worth. Allot of what I noticed for myself is how is the trigger, because I'm left handed I tend to pull to the side 1" where my wife who's right handed pulls to the other side. I shoot from a sled sighting in to remove as many variables as possible.

The comment about shooting it more, it's probably valid. When I switched to wby back countries I noticed a diff from the accumark and deluxe I own and wanted to blame the rifle for less accuracy. Checked everything similar to you, adjusted some triggers and settled in, now I own several 6lb rifles

Some of this maybe an adjustment for shooter as well. It was for me,

Side note - I've had luck with 150 nosler ballistic tips myself as well as the 168's. I no longer shoot 308's, I have a pile of nosler ballistic tip ammo federal loaded ammo. And many other factory brands will sell for reasonable prices. Pm me if interested - just looking to help not make a sale, so I don't wanna hijack your thread -

All the best,

 

[ducky]

Hmm okay. That's the factory rail right?

Yes, factory rail. My only other option for mounts is through Talley. The Superlite action is not the same size as a standard 1500 SA. There is about a .25" difference in screw spacing and the diameter of the reciever and bolt is reduced. Think Model 7 vs. 700 Remington.

How much free float clearance does your barrel have along its entire length?

Not enough to be called truly free floated, and there is some flex in the forend. I try to make sure I have the bag just ahead of the front screw before each shot. I also find my groups shrink if I bench the rifle like Mark Bansner suggests at about 8 minutes into this video.

I'm using a front bag similar to a Caldwell Deadshot and my rear bag is from the Deadshot. I quit wrapping my thumb a few years ago, when I read a few articles about how it causes groups to open by torque on the stock being introduced. However, I tried shooting this rifle a few different ways. I also realize my sample size of 9 total rounds in 3 groups is to small to prove anything definitive.


1- Forend hold, thumb wrapped around grip. 2.63 MOA, group area 1.85" wide 2.55" high, 1.22 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 1.01 right 2.53" low.

2- Forend hold, no thumb. 2.3 MOA, group area 1.58" wide 1.82" high, 0.97 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 2.41" right .77" high.

3- Bansner Method. 1.5 MOA, group area 1.41" wide 1.38" high, .78 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 2.18" right 1.16 low.

Without the suppressor or a brake free recoil isn't an option.