Jump with AMAX?

[remingtonman_25_06]

I'm having a bit of difficulty getting my model 70 264 WM to consistently shoot the 140g AMAX.

I've only tried H1000 so far, but original work up showed a .5" cloverleaf group with 67g at 3100fps. Bullets were seated to touch the lands during original work up. Thought to myself, wow, that was almost to easy. Think I jinxed myself lol.

So I load the same exact load and shoot again in couple days, this time there shooting 1-1.5" at 100 yards. Getting 2 close and 1 big bad flyer. This led me to try a few different seating depths still using 67g. I tried .005" in the lands, .005", .010", .015" off the lands and groups were still 1-1.5 MOA with 2 really close or touching, and a big flyer. I dont get it??

I also shot the original load (67g H1000 at the lands) at 625 yards, and both times it put 2 within 2-3" inches, but flew the 3rd 8-12", condidtions were great...

I am using Fed215's, was thinking about trying a CCI250 just to see with the above load. Sometimes I've had loads tighten up considerably with just a primer swap. Just haven't got around to that yet.

I also have a few more powders to try now if need be in H4350, H4831sc, and Retumbo if the H1000 wont work out.

One other thing, my rifle has a 1 in 9" twist, and I know the Hornady bullet box says a 7.5" twist is recomended, but they are leaving round holes all the way to 625 yards. I dont think my twist is exactly the problem, but maybe its not helping any either, maybe borderline?? What do you guys think? If it wasn't stabilizing them, I wouldn't be gettign MOA groups and round holes I would think. The twist wouldn't cause a flyer either, more like shotgun patterns if stabilization was the problem.

So I guess I'd like to ask if and where any of you had luck with AMAXs shooting off the lands, and inparticular where? Just to get a good idea anyways. I've always had great luck with the 7mm 162 amax loaded to the lands, and heard from many others to keep them touching or even in a tad, so thats what I've been doing. Might have this problem with the 105 AMAX in my 243 as well, but its the opposite problem where as Im having to find the jump sweet spot because they wont fit in my mag when loaded to the lands...

Id like to minimize going to the range right now since I'm still in recovery process and on crutches with a broken knee.

Thanks for any help.

 

[cornstalker]

I will follow this with interest, as I wonder the same thing.


Not to insult your intelligence, but I have to ask......

Did you have the barrelled action out of the stock in those couple of days between the good groups and the bad?

God speed the recovery, bro!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Yah know I dont remember exactly as it was probly 3 months ago since I've shot the rifle. I know I shot it a few times before I worked on the trigger, just dont know if it was inbetween those days.

Would that make that much of a difference by taking it in and out of a stock? I know it would change the zero some, but the way it groups a certain load should still be the same you would think, right?

I still got a little while on the recovery. Another 4-6 weeks on crutches and another 4 weeks after that to get back to work. Its already been almost 6 weeks. Am going nuts already with not much to do and worse yet, no money to do anything lol.

 

[cornstalker]

Would that make that much of a difference by taking it in and out of a stock? I know it would change the zero some, but the way it groups a certain load should still be the same you would think, right?

I don't know for sure, and I don't know anything about Winchester Model 70's. The only reason I brought it up is because reading your post brought back bad memories of a Remington issue I had where the front action screw was contacting the barrel threads. It wasn't an accuracy problem until I took the stock off and put it back on. It would put two through one hole, then toss one and inc to 1.5" away.

So far, that was the only time groups like that were a result of anything other than a bedding issue for me.....

Sorry I can't answer your original question. Hopefully someone will. I need to know the same stuff for the 6.5x284 I have ordered.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Well this rifle is not bedded, that may be the culprit as well, but I just dont get why always the 1"-1.5" flyer. Everything is tight, action screws aren't contacting or rubbing anything, barrel is not rubbing barrel channel in anyway.

I've never really got into bedding rifles unless it was a real PITA to get em to shoot. I really haven't spent enough time with this rifle yet to determine if I'm going to bed it or not. I usually dont have to much of a problem getting a rifle to shoot under MOA consistently with anything more then a trigger job and tinkering around with some good handloads.

This rifle will shoot the 95g vmax/H1000 into 1/2-3/4 MOA consistently and that was with little load workup as well. I dont have the flyer problem with this load like I do the 140 AMAX.

 

[cornstalker]

This rifle will shoot the 95g vmax/H1000 into 1/2-3/4 MOA consistently and that was with little load workup as well. I dont have the flyer problem with this load like I do the 140 AMAX.

I would assume this would eliminate bedding as an issue......

I am curious to see what you figure out.

 

[Prairie Dog50]

I shoot 168 grain A-Maxs in my howa model 1500 30.06 at .010 of an inch of the lands and they hold .6 moa quiet consistently. I have to admit though I do get an occasional flyer. I was talking to some friends the other day and they said that for a long time they had the same problem until they started turning their necks on their cases. They swear that when a neck has varying thickness in the metal, it is a flyer waiting to happen.

 

[benchracer]

I have incorporated Berger's instructions for tuning seating depth of their VLD's into my normal reloading routine. Interestingly enough, I have found that to work very well with the AMAX bullets. In my 6.5x55, the seating depth that results in the smallest groups with both Berger VLD's and Hornady AMAX's has a jump of .120. Both styles of bullet are grouping in the .4's @ 100 yards.

I see quite a few people suggesting adjustments in seating depth of .005" or .010". IMO, that is far too small of an adjustment to tell you anything about what your rifle likes. I recommend starting with the seating depths suggested by Berger (touching the lands, .040 off, .080 off, and .120 off). Once your rifle shows which seating depth it prefers, you could then adjust seating depth in .005" or .010" increments to fine tune your loads.

To find the optimum powder charge, I have had good luck following this procedure:

OCW Overview - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System


Personally, I would not recommend that you change powders or primers until you have completed the above seating depth and power charge tests.

 

[backwoods83]

I know quite a few people that shoot 1k IBS including myself, I use lapuas myself but I've shot about every different kind including a-maxs, not many shoot them at 1k with consistency, and the ones that do, usually don't jump them, you can but most have the best luck .005-.007" in the lands. Try looking at the polymer tips, obviously there machine made and you could get as much as 20 of 100 with crooked tips which screws up there flight. Your twist is a little slow but at 3100fps they should stabilize. Anyway if I were you I'd use H4831sc and CCI 250s unless your powder charge falls at 60grns or less then I'd use BR2s of 210Ms.

 

[elkaholic]

I shoot 168 grain A-Maxs in my howa model 1500 30.06 at .010 of an inch of the lands and they hold .6 moa quiet consistently. I have to admit though I do get an occasional flyer. I was talking to some friends the other day and they said that for a long time they had the same problem until they started turning their necks on their cases. They swear that when a neck has varying thickness in the metal, it is a flyer waiting to happen.

Neck thickness can indeed cause that problem. Next time you try it, mark your cases to index the same in your chamber and when you encounter a flyer, shoot it again with the same case indexed the same in the chamber and see what happens?.....Rich