ss7mm
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John Burns!!!! Best of the west, DVD
- Thread starter kac1345
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kac1345
Well-Known Member
Dick Very well said... man I feel bad for even starting this topic. I thought it was intertaining just as you stated you did, and I thought others may see it in the same light...by no means is this a teaching video nor should it be viewed as one. Eeverybody need to take a deep breath. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ricka0
Well-Known Member
Edited
big bore
I haven't seen the video but do call yotes. I have seen the whimpering that you refer to and have seen it on other videos. When the coyote is shot in the lungs he will usually turn his head and try and bite at the wound,whimpering and whining. This is of course if the bullet did not detonate in him and just put a hole through him. Just like shooting a deer in the lungs but with a coyote you get a reaction. Sometimes,sometimes not.
I haven't seen the video but do call yotes. I have seen the whimpering that you refer to and have seen it on other videos. When the coyote is shot in the lungs he will usually turn his head and try and bite at the wound,whimpering and whining. This is of course if the bullet did not detonate in him and just put a hole through him. Just like shooting a deer in the lungs but with a coyote you get a reaction. Sometimes,sometimes not.
ss7mm
Well-Known Member
Edited by request
John Burns
Well-Known Member
Goodgrouper,
I may be going to one of the Idaho stores but nothing on the schedule for Provo. The talk in Midvale went over pretty good so Sportsman's Warehouse asked me to do some more but I don't know how much time I have.
One of the things I wanted to talk to you about was letting you guys use one of my rangefinders to help with the chuck shooting. I have the one seen in the DVD with the readout you can photograph or video. I have gotten reading out to 2800 yds in low light conditions.
It won't work to do the initial ranging but if you get a kill over 2000 I think you could use it for verification with a reflective target. I am using it right now for filming but let me know if it would help out your project later this summer.
7mmag man,
From the feedback we get most guys are sick of turkey hunting because it always looks the same on TV. There is no question it is loads of fun and on public ground can be challenging in the extreme but many guys just want a little more variety.
For me personally, I don't really enjoy watching it. I am curious since you really like to hunt turkeys, do if you also really like to watch it? Please give me your thoughts. Always need more feedback.
Thanks
B1g b0re,
I was referring to you. Hear are some answers to your questions.
1. What qualifies me to speculate on the ego problem? Just my opinion.
2. What evidence do I have of your lack of real experience? Your post on another thread stating the "best shot" you have ever seen was a 2 shot kill on an antelope at 650yds (no rangefinder) and that your best was short of 500yds.
3. Let me clue you in to how the world operates. When ever you see an advertisement you should assume there was a payment of some sort made. Example: When Michael Jordan talks about Hanes underwear it is a safe bet he is getting something in return. When Pepsi runs an ad on your TV rest assured that the channel received something from Pepsi. So it is with our TV show and the DVD. I am particularly proud of the sponsors we have on the TV show and our DVDs because we are in the unique position of being able to pick the products that really work and have never promoted anything that is not a great product.
4. Was the video a teaser? "Beyond Belief" was designed to show what we know and establish our credentials to produce the follow on instructional DVDs and to entertain the viewer.
B1g b0re, you really are just a beginner in shooting game at long range and that's ok because everyone started out without any experience, but if you want people to respect your opinion you need to get some real world experience. Go out and spend the summer shooting at field type targets, learn your limitations and give it a try this fall for real. After the hunting season watch the DVD again and see if you still feel the same way.
Remember Goodgrouper has some questions about what he saw and that's great and I hope he posts his questions here so we can talk about it, but he didn't take a cheap shot like you did. Frankly I am surprised we don't get more questions, I know what can be done in the editing room.
Another option is to email me and I will give you a complete refund.
If it seems I am being a little hard on you please remember you referred to my DVD as a "rip-off" and "for the masses and the asses". I can't for the life of me see how that was justified but I definitely feel you have the right to express your opinion, just don't expect me to sit back and not respond.
I may be going to one of the Idaho stores but nothing on the schedule for Provo. The talk in Midvale went over pretty good so Sportsman's Warehouse asked me to do some more but I don't know how much time I have.
One of the things I wanted to talk to you about was letting you guys use one of my rangefinders to help with the chuck shooting. I have the one seen in the DVD with the readout you can photograph or video. I have gotten reading out to 2800 yds in low light conditions.
It won't work to do the initial ranging but if you get a kill over 2000 I think you could use it for verification with a reflective target. I am using it right now for filming but let me know if it would help out your project later this summer.
7mmag man,
From the feedback we get most guys are sick of turkey hunting because it always looks the same on TV. There is no question it is loads of fun and on public ground can be challenging in the extreme but many guys just want a little more variety.
For me personally, I don't really enjoy watching it. I am curious since you really like to hunt turkeys, do if you also really like to watch it? Please give me your thoughts. Always need more feedback.
Thanks
B1g b0re,
I was referring to you. Hear are some answers to your questions.
1. What qualifies me to speculate on the ego problem? Just my opinion.
2. What evidence do I have of your lack of real experience? Your post on another thread stating the "best shot" you have ever seen was a 2 shot kill on an antelope at 650yds (no rangefinder) and that your best was short of 500yds.
3. Let me clue you in to how the world operates. When ever you see an advertisement you should assume there was a payment of some sort made. Example: When Michael Jordan talks about Hanes underwear it is a safe bet he is getting something in return. When Pepsi runs an ad on your TV rest assured that the channel received something from Pepsi. So it is with our TV show and the DVD. I am particularly proud of the sponsors we have on the TV show and our DVDs because we are in the unique position of being able to pick the products that really work and have never promoted anything that is not a great product.
4. Was the video a teaser? "Beyond Belief" was designed to show what we know and establish our credentials to produce the follow on instructional DVDs and to entertain the viewer.
B1g b0re, you really are just a beginner in shooting game at long range and that's ok because everyone started out without any experience, but if you want people to respect your opinion you need to get some real world experience. Go out and spend the summer shooting at field type targets, learn your limitations and give it a try this fall for real. After the hunting season watch the DVD again and see if you still feel the same way.
Remember Goodgrouper has some questions about what he saw and that's great and I hope he posts his questions here so we can talk about it, but he didn't take a cheap shot like you did. Frankly I am surprised we don't get more questions, I know what can be done in the editing room.
Another option is to email me and I will give you a complete refund.
If it seems I am being a little hard on you please remember you referred to my DVD as a "rip-off" and "for the masses and the asses". I can't for the life of me see how that was justified but I definitely feel you have the right to express your opinion, just don't expect me to sit back and not respond.
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
John,
Glad to hear the seminar went well. I sure wish I could've gotten away to come see you. I may be able to catch you at one of the Idaho stores if I am up there chuck hunting one weekend.
The offer of the rangefinder is most kind. It would definetely help in our quest for the 2k chuck. Our Wild rangefinder does a pretty nice job ranging chucks at that range, but your laser rangefinder would be awesome to double check the shot. I found the website for the company who makes your rangefinder several months ago and was very impressed with the technology (and the price!).
If it is not too much trouble, we would love to give it a try. Just let me know what I can do and thanks again.
Glad to hear the seminar went well. I sure wish I could've gotten away to come see you. I may be able to catch you at one of the Idaho stores if I am up there chuck hunting one weekend.
The offer of the rangefinder is most kind. It would definetely help in our quest for the 2k chuck. Our Wild rangefinder does a pretty nice job ranging chucks at that range, but your laser rangefinder would be awesome to double check the shot. I found the website for the company who makes your rangefinder several months ago and was very impressed with the technology (and the price!).
If it is not too much trouble, we would love to give it a try. Just let me know what I can do and thanks again.
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
do we agree that what John does and what goodgrouper does is different and aren't really fair and accurate comparisons?
[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive me for butting in here, and maybe I am not understanding your converstation properly, but I think what John does and what I do are fairly similiar. We both use highly tuned equipment, practice often, and hunt in similiar fashions. The only main differences I see are that John uses a custom turret with drop compensations tuned to his load and he uses a Premier custom reticle for drop adjustment in-between his turret settings. I prefer hunting with my Pocket pc and or drop charts and having nothing but a clear fine crosshair and dialing all my adjustment in MOA. The really busy crosshairs drive me crazy. I prefer just a fine single crosshair that has no chance of hiding bullet impacts, but that does not mean it is the only way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
do we agree that what John does and what goodgrouper does is different and aren't really fair and accurate comparisons?
[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive me for butting in here, and maybe I am not understanding your converstation properly, but I think what John does and what I do are fairly similiar. We both use highly tuned equipment, practice often, and hunt in similiar fashions. The only main differences I see are that John uses a custom turret with drop compensations tuned to his load and he uses a Premier custom reticle for drop adjustment in-between his turret settings. I prefer hunting with my Pocket pc and or drop charts and having nothing but a clear fine crosshair and dialing all my adjustment in MOA. The really busy crosshairs drive me crazy. I prefer just a fine single crosshair that has no chance of hiding bullet impacts, but that does not mean it is the only way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
ss7mm
Well-Known Member
goodgrouper:
I fully agree with what you say as long as we are comparing your hunting type guns and not comparing your MOAG to Johns portable type hunting rifles. Since a lot of people read these posts that are new to the long range game, it might be misunderstood that perhaps John should also be shooting at 2000 yards.
I think your posts and related information have been great and take offense with none of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm agreeing with everything you say, I just wanted to make sure we compare apples to apples.
I told an acquaintance about your MOAG and chuck hunt posts and after reading them, his response was, he thought he would try that with his equipment since it looked like fun. After a lot of discussions and having him go over your equipment and comparing it to his, he decided maybe he needs to limit his range until he can upgrade his equipment.
I also liked your line about the fact that even though you use slightly different equipment than John uses, that in the end, you both accomplish the same thing and that is accurate range measurements combined with precision equipment to place the shot where it should be.
I fully agree with what you say as long as we are comparing your hunting type guns and not comparing your MOAG to Johns portable type hunting rifles. Since a lot of people read these posts that are new to the long range game, it might be misunderstood that perhaps John should also be shooting at 2000 yards.
I think your posts and related information have been great and take offense with none of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm agreeing with everything you say, I just wanted to make sure we compare apples to apples.
I told an acquaintance about your MOAG and chuck hunt posts and after reading them, his response was, he thought he would try that with his equipment since it looked like fun. After a lot of discussions and having him go over your equipment and comparing it to his, he decided maybe he needs to limit his range until he can upgrade his equipment.
I also liked your line about the fact that even though you use slightly different equipment than John uses, that in the end, you both accomplish the same thing and that is accurate range measurements combined with precision equipment to place the shot where it should be.
ricka0
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Let me clue you in to how the world operates. When ever you see an advertisement you should assume there was a payment of some sort made. Example: When Michael Jordan talks about Hanes underwear it is a safe bet he is getting something in return. When Pepsi runs an ad on your TV rest assured that the channel received something from Pepsi. So it is with our TV show and the DVD.
[/ QUOTE ]
IMAO a irrelevant comparisons. When MJ shows his Hanes, it's clearly delineated as a comercial, ditto for Pepsi. When a Pay TV Expert promotes something and doesn't identify the relationship, it's usually called <font color="red"> Unethical </font>
I publish computer research, residential construction [new materials], nail gun reviews, etc. ...altho I'm often offered free computers, nail guns etc.
interesting read on the topic by the conservative WSJHow Companies Pay TV Experts For On-Air Product Mentions
Let me clue you in to how the world operates. When ever you see an advertisement you should assume there was a payment of some sort made. Example: When Michael Jordan talks about Hanes underwear it is a safe bet he is getting something in return. When Pepsi runs an ad on your TV rest assured that the channel received something from Pepsi. So it is with our TV show and the DVD.
[/ QUOTE ]
IMAO a irrelevant comparisons. When MJ shows his Hanes, it's clearly delineated as a comercial, ditto for Pepsi. When a Pay TV Expert promotes something and doesn't identify the relationship, it's usually called <font color="red"> Unethical </font>
I publish computer research, residential construction [new materials], nail gun reviews, etc. ...altho I'm often offered free computers, nail guns etc.
interesting read on the topic by the conservative WSJHow Companies Pay TV Experts For On-Air Product Mentions
ricka0
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
quest for the 2k chuck.
[/ QUOTE ]
GoodGrouper - I'll be bringing two of my BR 50 BMG's to SLC for a chuck hunt. The ALS sports a NXS 5.5-22x56 ( 95 MOA) with the new MLR reticle ( which gives it an extra 25.2 MOA holdover ) and my SA Big Bertha sporting my 8-32x56 Benchrest with NP-R2 reticle. Alto the BR scope only has 45 MOA, I have a bunch of rails for each gun to reach out 200+ MOA. The BR is good for ultra long range with it's 1/8 MOA clicks and 32 power.
The ALS shot .03 MOA at the factory! Since I'm working in SF and KaliFornia doesn't like 50's, they're stuck in Seattle.
Until I get one of Kirby new 7mm's - these are my ultra long range varmint guns (too heavy to tote tho). I think you could shatter your old record with one of these. I've noticed chuck/ground squirrels indeed have a <font color="green"> Soft underbelly </font> when I hit a few inches low /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif With the 750gr A-MAX it's more like grenades, you don't need a direct hit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
quest for the 2k chuck.
[/ QUOTE ]
GoodGrouper - I'll be bringing two of my BR 50 BMG's to SLC for a chuck hunt. The ALS sports a NXS 5.5-22x56 ( 95 MOA) with the new MLR reticle ( which gives it an extra 25.2 MOA holdover ) and my SA Big Bertha sporting my 8-32x56 Benchrest with NP-R2 reticle. Alto the BR scope only has 45 MOA, I have a bunch of rails for each gun to reach out 200+ MOA. The BR is good for ultra long range with it's 1/8 MOA clicks and 32 power.
The ALS shot .03 MOA at the factory! Since I'm working in SF and KaliFornia doesn't like 50's, they're stuck in Seattle.
Until I get one of Kirby new 7mm's - these are my ultra long range varmint guns (too heavy to tote tho). I think you could shatter your old record with one of these. I've noticed chuck/ground squirrels indeed have a <font color="green"> Soft underbelly </font> when I hit a few inches low /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif With the 750gr A-MAX it's more like grenades, you don't need a direct hit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
ss7mm,
Point understood. I see the perspective and text of your debate now.
We only have one MOAG, and it came well after the construction of many other less radical hunting rifles. We "graduated" up to the MOAG by using smaller rifles at smaller distances just as John is doing now. All but one of my long range big game kills was done with my bone-stock Browning 300 win mag which is just slightly under 9 pounds with bi-pod attached. And even that got a little heavy on my desert bighorn hunt two years ago! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Point understood. I see the perspective and text of your debate now.
We only have one MOAG, and it came well after the construction of many other less radical hunting rifles. We "graduated" up to the MOAG by using smaller rifles at smaller distances just as John is doing now. All but one of my long range big game kills was done with my bone-stock Browning 300 win mag which is just slightly under 9 pounds with bi-pod attached. And even that got a little heavy on my desert bighorn hunt two years ago! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'll be bringing two of my BR 50 BMG's to SLC for a chuck hunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
When??
Who are you going with??
Maybe we can shoot together.
[ QUOTE ]
I think you could shatter your old record with one of these.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I could afford to even get sighted in! 50 cal rounds ain't cheap. But I would love to spot for you.
And besides, I think a guys got to get in the 2k club with his own gun on his own merits. Thanks anyway though!
I'll be bringing two of my BR 50 BMG's to SLC for a chuck hunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
When??
Who are you going with??
Maybe we can shoot together.
[ QUOTE ]
I think you could shatter your old record with one of these.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I could afford to even get sighted in! 50 cal rounds ain't cheap. But I would love to spot for you.
And besides, I think a guys got to get in the 2k club with his own gun on his own merits. Thanks anyway though!
257speed
Well-Known Member
I had decided to stay out of this post because I do enjoy the show, but I can't help it anymore. I have read bigbore's posts on here before and thought he had some good things to say, but now I have lost a lot of respect for you, as I am sure others have too. Your post was that of a hypocrits, slamming john over the ego thing, then challenging him to a shoot out in silhouette.?.?. I have shot many coyotes, with many different guns and seen very few "drop in their tracks". I have seen one shot with a seven ultra mag, drag his insides for 30 yards before reluctantly falling down. I agree with others here, you went to far and were talking out your a**. Opinions are to be expressed but yours was a direct and inappropriate attack.
