Issues I have with E bike deer hunting want your thoughts

[FEENIX]

I'm all good with following the rules, but that's not what this thread is all about. This thread was started by someone that rode his horse way back into the most remote area he could think of to get away from everyone else. Then he crossed paths with someone else, and it made him mad. At least, that's what I read into it.

The meaning of my post that you replied to is this-When one part of a particular group (hunters) starts arguing with another part of that group (hunters that use ebikes), the easiest solution for some would be to close the property completely. Sort of like when kids start fighting over a toy, and the easiest solution is to take the toy away, completely. Do you not think that the Government wouldn't be just as happy if no one went into these areas? Heck, most in the Government would prefer it be developed and produce tax revenue (and would be willing to spend more to do so than could ever be recovered).

There are parts of this thread that are reasonable, in terms of illegal use of motorized vehicles. But I feel like it turned into more of a ebike vs non-ebike.

Have a nice day and good luck to ALL of us in our adventures.

P.S. I do not own an ebike, and I don't mind a bit when one passes by me as I'm walking in.

Excellent! I, too, have the same understanding of the OP. It is all about mutual courtesy and shared custodial responsibility of our wilderness/hunting grounds. As you eloquently noted, it is either we share it or lose the privilege to use it all together. The anti-hunters would love to see that happen.

Yes, I am an e-bike owner and have a vested interest, but I will follow the rules and legality of its use for hunting accessibility. I invested in an e-bike because I cannot afford the equine route. As I get older, I am falling apart (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/i-am-falling-apart.267400/), but I am not quite ready to give up hunting. Yes, I still hike 5-8 miles to my hunting grounds, but it gets harder each time. The golden year is a lie.

 

[bowhunter1287]

Excellent! I, too, have the same understanding of the OP. It is all about mutual courtesy and shared custodial responsibility of our wilderness/hunting grounds. As you eloquently noted, it is either we share it or lose the privilege to use it all together. The anti-hunters would love to see that happen.

Yes, I am an e-bike owner and have a vested interest, but I will follow the rules and legality of its use for hunting accessibility. I invested in an e-bike because I cannot afford the equine route. As I get older, I am falling apart (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/i-am-falling-apart.267400/), but I am not quite ready to give up hunting. Yes, I still hike 5-8 miles to my hunting grounds, but it gets harder each time. The golden year is a lie.

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I picked a spot that was remote and difficult to get in there so I didn't see people that is correct and it did not bother me that other people are in there because it's public land great that people get out there the thing that I got mad about is the fact that it's a no motorized area and they were in there. The way the law says on Wyoming blm land for this area is regular pedal bikes are aloud to be off road and go anywhere e bikes are motorized so they are same rules as a dirt bike or atv or sxs or truck and car no off road. There was a a lot of off topic on this thread. Basically it all boils down to in my mind is that sit down read the rules and follow them don't just assume it's ok. Because I bet all of us have at some point not fully read the rules or skimmed the laws and missed something and ended up doing something wrong and was brought to your attention after it was done. My self included. When your taking kids or new hunters out and teaching them to do everything right and you come across someone that is not doing something that is right or following the laws kids see that and don't understand on why that person is doing this and at some point they will say well they did why can't I even though it's not right.
It's about having fun and getting the younger generation into having fun and keep them interested in hunting and being outdoors because in the future they will be the ones fighting for the public land.

 

[MtPockets]

I'm all good with following the rules, but that's not what this thread is all about. This thread was started by someone that rode his horse way back into the most remote area he could think of to get away from everyone else. Then he crossed paths with someone else, and it made him mad. At least, that's what I read into it.

The meaning of my post that you replied to is this-When one part of a particular group (hunters) starts arguing with another part of that group (hunters that use ebikes), the easiest solution for some would be to close the property completely. Sort of like when kids start fighting over a toy, and the easiest solution is to take the toy away, completely. Do you not think that the Government wouldn't be just as happy if no one went into these areas? Heck, most in the Government would prefer it be developed and produce tax revenue (and would be willing to spend more to do so than could ever be recovered).

There are parts of this thread that are reasonable, in terms of illegal use of motorized vehicles. But I feel like it turned into more of a ebike vs non-ebike.

Have a nice day and good luck to ALL of us in our adventures.

P.S. I do not own an ebike, and I don't mind a bit when one passes by me as I'm walking in.

I added this, for those who care to read it. The last page gives a pretty clear rule on the use of e-bikes on Wilderness lands.

Like I've said before, I have zero issue with folks using eBikes where they are legal. If that's not what this thread is about, I apologize. The designated Wilderness Areas that I've hunted have signs posted that clearly state that nothing with wheels, except wheelchairs, is allowed.
This seems like the point that people are missing. It's also not about horses. It's about following the rules.
By the way, the document you posted is for National Parks and has no bearing on Forest Service lands, which is what we are talking about here.
I agree that we need to not squabble amongst ourselves but to NOT hold others accountable when they are riding in an area that is supposed to be off limits is wrong. What kind of message does that send to other Wilderness users if we don't police ourselves?
Does restricting eBikes make it more difficult for some to access the backcountry? Absolutely, me included. But if pedal bikes are not allowed, neither are eBikes.

 

[FEENIX]

I picked a spot that was remote and difficult to get in there so I didn't see people that is correct and it did not bother me that other people are in there because it's public land great that people get out there the thing that I got mad about is the fact that it's a no motorized area and they were in there. The way the law says on Wyoming blm land for this area is regular pedal bikes are aloud to be off road and go anywhere e bikes are motorized so they are same rules as a dirt bike or atv or sxs or truck and car no off road. There was a a lot of off topic on this thread. Basically it all boils down to in my mind is that sit down read the rules and follow them don't just assume it's ok. Because I bet all of us have at some point not fully read the rules or skimmed the laws and missed something and ended up doing something wrong and was brought to your attention after it was done. My self included. When your taking kids or new hunters out and teaching them to do everything right and you come across someone that is not doing something that is right or following the laws kids see that and don't understand on why that person is doing this and at some point they will say well they did why can't I even though it's not right.
It's about having fun and getting the younger generation into having fun and keep them interested in hunting and being outdoors because in the future they will be the ones fighting for the public land.

As I noted in #12, different states/BLMs/WMAs managers have different management rules and are ultimately responsible for granting end-users access/permission. The BLM I hunted 2 years ago has motorized restrictions, but I had written permission from the custodial manager; if someone challenges me, I am not allowed to be there. I have the ultimate responsibility and the consequences associated with it, so you bet I read the rules and regulations. Having said that, they are not clear, which is why I was referred directly to the unit managers, as noted in #12.

 

[LkeAF]

I don't care if you want to take in your meat cart or pedal bike...and i sure won't be reporting you.

In the summer of 2022 I was out on a lengthy horseback ride, 6 days if memory serves me correctly.
I had decided to stop, and fish in a river, hoping to catch myself some dinner.
Along came two Conservation officers, I was surprised to see anyone that far from civilization. This impromptu meeting turned into a long conversation. They were out patrolling because of complaints from some about people doing Possibly illegal activities. They told me that if the complaints continued, the whole area may just get closed to everybody. They said that historically, most closed land was closed because of complainers. When complaints continue to happen, then land is closed, so anyone who is found out there can be arrested, because it is illegal for them to be there regardless of how or why.


Also never trust others whom you see out in the bush, as some like to lie to keep an area for themselves. Experienced that myself this past winter while snowmobiling. There was 4 of us out riding snowmobiles, and we were told by a group of locals that where we were heading up to was banned from being ridden, because it was protected mountain caribou habitat. I laughed at them and their blatant lies. We continued on our way, and had a great ride. They just wanted to keep it to themselves, so tell people it is closed. Maybe I should have gotten their info and reported them for being full of BS.

Generally speaking, and yes there are exceptions, but overall anyone who goes out and buys a fat tire ebike, then hauls it way out to the bush in their vehicle, to go riding, is not a problem person. Stop and talk to them, and you may find yourself talking to a wonderful, and interesting person.
I'm kind back to those who treat me kindly.
Come at me with an attitude, and I will return it....not directing this at you Pockets, as you seem kind.
Just making a general comment.

If i was out riding my horse, and give attitude to someone on a bike, I best be expecting it right back. Now if we stop to chat, and I am kind, 99.99% the other person is kind back to me.

As for the Royalty on horses, keep complaining about others, and then don't grumble when you find the land closed to all, due to the complaining.

Can you give me an example in the US of land that has been "closed to everyone" because people complained about other people breaking the rules? I've worked in trails and land management and this is unheard of to me.

 

[LkeAF]

Are there many places where you are not allowed to ride a non motorized bicycle but can Horseback? Don't think I've ever seen that? That would be an elitist decision for sure.

All federally designated Wilderness areas are closed to mechanized equipment (pedal bikes) but are open to horses. I do not know of any trails on public land (BLM, USFS, Wilderness, etc) that are closed to horses. They have the strongest and oldest lobby in DC, so good luck changing that. As stated, horses have the highest trail impact per user, but they are allowed everywhere and probably always will be.

 

[FEENIX]

Can you give me an example in the US of land that has been "closed to everyone" because people complained about other breaking the rules? I've worked in trails and land management and this is unheard of to me.

Sorry, I know your query was not addressed to me, but my wife is part of an all-girls hiking group, and they used to frequent a state land/park (I cannot remember the name) that is no longer available to the public because of too many complaints, IIRC it was due to trash, but not sure.

 

[FEENIX]

All federally designated Wilderness areas are closed to mechanized equipment (pedal bikes) but are open to horses. I do not know of any trails on public land (BLM, USFS, Wilderness, etc) that are closed to horses. They have the strongest and oldest lobby in DC, so good luck changing that. As stated, horses have the highest trail impact per user, but they are allowed everywhere and probably always will be.

Does that include Wilderness Management Areas?

 

[asd9055]

Excellent! I, too, have the same understanding of the OP. It is all about mutual courtesy and shared custodial responsibility of our wilderness/hunting grounds. As you eloquently noted, it is either we share it or lose the privilege to use it all together. The anti-hunters would love to see that happen.

Yes, I am an e-bike owner and have a vested interest, but I will follow the rules and legality of its use for hunting accessibility. I invested in an e-bike because I cannot afford the equine route. As I get older, I am falling apart (https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/i-am-falling-apart.267400/), but I am not quite ready to give up hunting. Yes, I still hike 5-8 miles to my hunting grounds, but it gets harder each time. The golden year is a lie.

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I'd rather have the Tundra!

 

[FullCurl8]

This topic is lost on a lot of people.There are lots of rules in place and lots of exceptions.Wilderness- which is right out my back door NO WHEELSPERIOD.lots of many states have many trails for motor bikes and sxs.A lot of BLM on east side is open to ebkes.It varies as Fennix stated.I have had people tell me horses aren't allowed in glacier.The whole trail system was built by packers on horse.A friend of my dads had 100 horses for park use back when.

All federally designated Wilderness areas are closed to mechanized equipment (pedal bikes) but are open to horses. I do not know of any trails on public land (BLM, USFS, Wilderness, etc) that are closed to horses. They have the strongest and oldest lobby in DC, so good luck changing that. As stated, horses have the highest trail impact per user, but they are allowed everywhere and probably always will be.

You're probably right on that unfortunately.
I'm a believer in Science and proof, and no one has ever presented an argument that Horses are kinder than a bicycle on the land. There will never be 700 e-bikes at a staging area heading into a guys hunt area, they are expensive, don't last that long without a charge, and mine at 85 lbs empty is a brute to pedal when the battery is depleted. We should encourage land use, just not in my Sweet Spot!

 

[LkeAF]

Does that include Wilderness Management Areas?

That I do not know. Good question. I believe some WMA's are managed as "Wilderness", but I have no idea if that is how they are typically managed.....

 

[LkeAF]

Sorry, I know your query was not addressed to me, but my wife is part of an all-girls hiking group, and they used to frequent a state land/park (I cannot remember the name) that is no longer available to the public because of too many complaints, IIRC it was due to trash, but not sure.

I see your point and that just sucks that that happened. But, I would argue that the problem was the trash/littering, not the fact that there were complaints about it. If someone is driving drunk, the problem is the intoxicated driver, not the other driver who reports them. I will say that "closing" any land to public access is pretty drastic and should be an absolute last resort.

 

[FEENIX]

That I do not know. Good question. I believe some WMA's are managed as "Wilderness", but I have no idea if that is how they are typically managed.....

I was told yes. I was able to acquire permission from the Beartooth WMA manager a couple of years ago but was not able to use it.

I see your point and that just sucks that that happened. But, I would argue that the problem was the trash/littering, not the fact that there were complaints about it. If someone is driving drunk, the problem is the intoxicated driver, not the other driver who reports them. I will say that "closing" any land to public access is pretty drastic and should be an absolute last resort.

I agree.

 

[FullCurl8]

In 2019 I had an Antelope permit in Montana, Eastern side. I contacted FWP and one individual stated that FWP had adopted the Federal approved Travel Plans on Public lands in Montana, so Ebikes were considered wheeled motorized vehicles at that point. I was then contacted by R6 Office staff member who informed me that there had been a re-evaluation of the policy by a Pro Ebike Senator maybe (?) and they were expecting the results shortly. Based on that info, we left the bikes behind. On day 3 of the hunt I received a phone call stating EBikes were now allowed! Of course ours were at home. A follow up email from that regions Office manager explained that the confusion in the system and lack of communication was difficult to wade through. The closing line of the E mail states, "I hope you come back and get to use your bikes." I have read all the pages here, is it any clearer now in Montana?