How to know what powder is used in a manufactured cartridge

[Echo Charlie]

Hi,

I own a silenced Marlin 336 XLR .30-30 Win which I shoot with subsonic ammo (Sologne Klassic Subsonic .30-30 Win 170 gr).

The problem is, I live in France and here there is only one manufacturer (Sologne) making and selling this ammo (and they sell it to resellers only). Because of this, it is sometimes hard to find these ammunitions and it is EXPENSIVE: 70€ (75$) for a box of 20.

If I was handloading/reloading, I could easily divide the cost by 2 or even 3.

I already know the bullet they use (Hornady Interlock FP 170 gr). I can know how much powder they use by opening a bullet and weighting the powder.

The only thing I need to know is the type of powder they use. Do you have any tip on how to identify the type of powder used in a cartridge?

Thanks!

Load the 170 grain bullet with 7 grain of Vectan Ba10. Chronograph and add or reduce the load in .2 grain increments until you find a load that gives you 1000 -1050 fps

 

[Indian7953]

I have an old Lyman reloading manual that has low speed reloading data. I am going to try to send a photo of that for you. you'll need to start out with the low velocity loads that are under 1125 ft./s to keep it sub sonic.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Are you saying if (Varget) bulk lot 1234 is 5% less than desired, they find (Varget) bulk lot 6789 that was 5% over desired and mix the lots to try to get it right where desired? Am I understanding that correctly?

Seems like coronavirus restrictions may be getting to some of us... a few saucy members on this morning.

No, ADI/Thales do not mix batches, but the ammo makers do. This is why one lot of ammo you may buy is made with a stick powder then another batch number contains a ball powder.
If they buy numerous lots, whether it is faster or slower than each other, they have the testing equipment to determine what load produces what and they will and do blend it together if need be, not always of course.

Hope this clarifies things.

Cheers.

 

[MagnumManiac]

You need to know the countries import policy on brass or components.

EG. I can import brass & projectiles into Australia but I have to have pre completed a special form & submit it to the customs authority.

If it comes in without this it will be seized.

Interesting, you do not need a B709A/B/C import authority for brass here, only restricted gun parts like triggers, magazines and actions or parts thereof.
I import brass all the time and it is never seized.

Cheers.

 

[aushunter1]

Interesting, you do not need a B709A/B/C import authority for brass here, only restricted gun parts like triggers, magazines and actions or parts thereof.
I import brass all the time and it is never seized.

Cheers.

Where's here?

If your in Australia I would consider yourself lucky then!

Importing ammunition, magazines, firearm parts and firearm accessories to Australia

The importation of ammunition (including components), magazines, firearm parts and firearm accessories is controlled under the Regulations. Importers must obtain permission before bringing ammunition and magazines into Australia.
When ammunition is being imported with the firearms, the ammunition can generally be listed on the same import document as the firearms.
Ammunition and components of Ammunition
To import ammunition and components of ammunition into Australia, importers must obtain prior to importation, one of the following:

• written certification from the police firearms or weapons registry in their state or territory
• written permission to import from the Department of Home Affairs (small and large calibre).

Ammunition for use with firearms, also known as rounds, bullets, and cartridges, is controlled under the Regulations. This includes ammunition for paintball markers, soft air (BB) pellets as well as ball or shot projectiles for muzzle-loading firearms.
Components of ammunition include projectiles, cartridge casings, whether new or spent, and primers designed or adapted for use in ammunition are also controlled under the Regulations.
Police Certification
General purpose ammunition can be imported into Australia under Police Certification. This will be a B709A - Importation of Firearms – Police Confirmation and Certification form. Handgun Ammunition can also be imported on a B709D - Category H – Police Confirmation and Certification form.
Firearm dealers can also use a B709DA - Ongoing Importation by Firearms Dealer – Police Confirmation form.
Forms can be obtained from your state or territory police firearms and weapons registry.
The original signed form you receive from the police registry must be presented to the ABF at the time of importation (or a copy of the B709DA).

Firearms

Importers must obtain permission to bring firearms into Australia. The importation requirements will depend on the Category of firearm, action type, magazine capacity and any parts or accessories fitted to the firearm.

www.abf.gov.au

Not only that from the country of origin the person has to have an export licence & if there is any ITAR regs on any items then they wont export either.

ReloadingInternational.com

ReloadingInternational.com

 

[MagnumManiac]

Never had to get one yet, I bring in Timney triggers, PT&G bolts and bottom metal and have NEVER needed an import or export permit except on firearms.

Cheers.

 

[aushunter1]

Never had to get one yet, I bring in Timney triggers, PT&G bolts and bottom metal and have NEVER needed an import or export permit except on firearms.

Cheers.

I said you must be lucky on the components, if your bringing in triggers, bolts & DBM's then I think you are extremely lucky.

Then again you might get the TRG pounding on your door early one morning!

The laws are there in black & white, the fact you have been seemingly 'going under the radar' doenst change them!

 

[Tech4]

I've called several ammo manufacturers in the past, trying to duplicate their loads, none of them would tell me what powder that they were using. The only thing they would say was it was a proprietary load manufactured for them. Basically said look up load data and see what comes close to the speeds of their ammunition. But work up slowly, and don't go for the max load to start.

If you don't know what powder they are using what is the point of matching the speed of there ammo when you are using a different power? I know a lot of guys do that but never understand why.

 

[Starlite]

. I can't ev

You need to know the countries import policy on brass or components.

EG. I can import brass & projectiles into Australia but I have to have pre completed a special form & submit it to the customs authority.

If it comes in without this it will be seized.

id imagine you like me can't get much out of the USA. I find this very frustrating. I don't understand the logic from the largest free enterprise Country in the world. It's not the capitalist society that I once enjoyed.

 

[Starlite]

If you don't know what powder they are using what is the point of matching the speed of there ammo when you are using a different power? I know a lot of guys do that but never understand why.

Your barrel doesn't care what powder is used. It's an inanimate object. Velocity is the key for any given projectile. If I had a way to use compressed air and get that same velocity with all things being the same i would.

 

[FEENIX]

If you don't know what powder they are using what is the point of matching the speed of there ammo when you are using a different power? I know a lot of guys do that but never understand why.

Did you ever figure out your own reloading issue/challenge, esp. the improper seating depth reference with the Hammer Bullets?

 

[JayCee49]

Bonjour Gawpp and welcome to the forum,

You could start by "googling": .30-30 Win subsonic loads
There is a lot of information out there. I also think you don't need to 'discover' what powder is in the ammo you are using, you just need to find the proper combination with the components you can find.
Trail Boss https://www.hodgdon.com/trail-boss/ is the most mentioned powder by all subsonic hand loaders.

Regards,

Jay Cee
P.S.: I am in Chile and even here you can find Trail Boss for sale (very expensive though and not all the time).

 

[aushunter1]

. I can't ev

id imagine you like me can't get much out of the USA. I find this very frustrating. I don't understand the logic from the largest free enterprise Country in the world. It's not the capitalist society that I once enjoyed.

ITAR Compliance: Key Requirements You Must Know

Learn key ITAR compliance requirements to protect your data and avoid penalties. Discover how to stay compliant today!

www.ftptoday.com

 

[blitzfike]

Several years back, I was able to buy some powder in quantity that came from St. Marks Powder Company. It was made to sell to one of the major companies and they rejected it. A gentleman who deals in Large Quantities of surplus (both military and commercial) powders bought the entire lot. We were given what he thought was the starting info for the powder and told to go safely and sin no more... er develop out own loads. It was reportedly close to one of the newer anti copper fouling powders. Being an old and cautious loader, I dropped about twenty percent back and made some 308 loads. The first one down the pipe resulted in more recoil than I was used to along with a case with a stretched primer pocket and brass flowing around the bolt face. This was fired in one of the AR-10 style rifles. Thank goodness for a strong action. I immediately stopped, pulled all the loads and re-weighed the charges, finding them all on the money. I contacted the vendor and told him not to use that data as a starting point and went back to the drawing board. Taking one of my stronger bolt actions, I went back thirty percent and started working back up. I found a sweet spot about 26 percent below his starting point, then using the tables found a powder that matched the velocity pretty closely for the charge weight and used that as a starting point for developing loads for other calibers. The canister designation was WC-842 and was Not from military pulldown stuff. I bought quickload after that and now model most of my new stuff before ever stuffing the first cartridge. This is how some of the more strange powders end up on the market.