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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
high value low cost optics, scopes binoculars, spotters ect.
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<blockquote data-quote="GBA1776" data-source="post: 804684" data-attributes="member: 20522"><p>With the additional fact that a newbie just starting isnt going to shell out $4000 for a new rifle.</p></blockquote><p></p><p></p><p>thats absolutely not true, A guy (now a friend) came to my range with a 8k barrett 99 as his first rifle. And the 2-3k of glass sitting on top of it, (on top of an arrogant attitude) he couldnt shoot for his life. </p><p></p><p> I had been watching him shoot...badly and hearing him talk trash about other peoples stuff, I challenged him to a "friendly" (not friendly I wanted to wipe that smirk off his face) shooting competition. @300 yds. I made my point, I smoked him, with an ok group, about 5.25" with 5 rounds in a 5-8 mph left to right wind. His .416 is a laser at that distance, but since he flinched at recoil of that punishing round he only landed 2 shots out of 5 on the 12" round target. With 10k worth of rifle and scope and $15 dollar per round hand turned bronze alloy bullets he still shot like crap. After I won and took my prize, (one of his rounds) he started to actually be sort of cool, his attitude completely changed. I told him a few things and let him shoot my rifle, he still had terrible trigger control but thats not a 5 min fix, well the next time he showed up at the range he had the black version of my rifle, Same ammo and everything. Only after starting at the bottom ( a $400 rifle/scope package) did he begin to learn how to shoot. </p><p></p><p> So as rare as it is people do drop thousands of dollars on there first gun. And before I wrote this I called Steve and asked him if he would have kept shooting if he had only stuck with his Barrett, and the answer was a plain NO!! </p><p>he told me that he was so frustrated at spending a bunch of money and not being able to shoot well he was about to give up. He now owns a 22wmr,.223,.243,7mm,.308,.300WSM,.338,.416 and quite a few others in duplicate calibers but all custom guns, even his AR-15 is a Noveske that cost over 2k, and you know what my 16" bushy patrolmans carbine non free floated produces about the same results in our hands, 1-1.5 moa with match ammo</p><p></p><p> I guess the moral of the story is the shooter is the key, as long as your gun is reasonably accurate and you are reasonably skilled you can shoot well, if your an Ok shot with a rack grade rifle and a nikon, that 3k custom and 2k scope wont make you shoot any better, it just allows very very skilled shooters that are held up by there gear to achieve that little bit extra. And you know what, After shooting all of Steve's custom guns alot, and grouping mostly around .5-.75 MOA Ive found out that the extra 3-5k I would have to spend isnt worth the extra .25 moa (on my best days) I get out of them compared to good high quality rack grade rifle like a Savage 110 or Some of the 700 Rem offerings. that I group .75-1 MOA with. Maybe Im just not skilled/disciplined enough to really get everything out of a rifle, some of the guys I see shoot consistently less that .5 MOA out of there custom guns, only 2 guys at my club can do that out of the hundreds that shoot there. not me though, So maybe this should be less about the gear, and more about the squishy and imperfect thing pulling the trigger. From what ive seen a truly talented shooter can pick up any gun (thats not jacked up) and do well, And I rarely see people that skilled. And I certainly dont see one when I look in the mirror.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="GBA1776, post: 804684, member: 20522"] With the additional fact that a newbie just starting isnt going to shell out $4000 for a new rifle.[/QUOTE] thats absolutely not true, A guy (now a friend) came to my range with a 8k barrett 99 as his first rifle. And the 2-3k of glass sitting on top of it, (on top of an arrogant attitude) he couldnt shoot for his life. I had been watching him shoot...badly and hearing him talk trash about other peoples stuff, I challenged him to a "friendly" (not friendly I wanted to wipe that smirk off his face) shooting competition. @300 yds. I made my point, I smoked him, with an ok group, about 5.25" with 5 rounds in a 5-8 mph left to right wind. His .416 is a laser at that distance, but since he flinched at recoil of that punishing round he only landed 2 shots out of 5 on the 12" round target. With 10k worth of rifle and scope and $15 dollar per round hand turned bronze alloy bullets he still shot like crap. After I won and took my prize, (one of his rounds) he started to actually be sort of cool, his attitude completely changed. I told him a few things and let him shoot my rifle, he still had terrible trigger control but thats not a 5 min fix, well the next time he showed up at the range he had the black version of my rifle, Same ammo and everything. Only after starting at the bottom ( a $400 rifle/scope package) did he begin to learn how to shoot. So as rare as it is people do drop thousands of dollars on there first gun. And before I wrote this I called Steve and asked him if he would have kept shooting if he had only stuck with his Barrett, and the answer was a plain NO!! he told me that he was so frustrated at spending a bunch of money and not being able to shoot well he was about to give up. He now owns a 22wmr,.223,.243,7mm,.308,.300WSM,.338,.416 and quite a few others in duplicate calibers but all custom guns, even his AR-15 is a Noveske that cost over 2k, and you know what my 16" bushy patrolmans carbine non free floated produces about the same results in our hands, 1-1.5 moa with match ammo I guess the moral of the story is the shooter is the key, as long as your gun is reasonably accurate and you are reasonably skilled you can shoot well, if your an Ok shot with a rack grade rifle and a nikon, that 3k custom and 2k scope wont make you shoot any better, it just allows very very skilled shooters that are held up by there gear to achieve that little bit extra. And you know what, After shooting all of Steve's custom guns alot, and grouping mostly around .5-.75 MOA Ive found out that the extra 3-5k I would have to spend isnt worth the extra .25 moa (on my best days) I get out of them compared to good high quality rack grade rifle like a Savage 110 or Some of the 700 Rem offerings. that I group .75-1 MOA with. Maybe Im just not skilled/disciplined enough to really get everything out of a rifle, some of the guys I see shoot consistently less that .5 MOA out of there custom guns, only 2 guys at my club can do that out of the hundreds that shoot there. not me though, So maybe this should be less about the gear, and more about the squishy and imperfect thing pulling the trigger. From what ive seen a truly talented shooter can pick up any gun (thats not jacked up) and do well, And I rarely see people that skilled. And I certainly dont see one when I look in the mirror. [/QUOTE]
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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
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high value low cost optics, scopes binoculars, spotters ect.
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