help me identify this powder from Barnes Vor-tx 300 win mag factory ammo

[timotheius]

I'm trying to duplicate the 180 grain Barnes Vor-tx factory ammo that shoots extremely well out of my .300 win mag. Can you identify the powder in the pic below? Today I took a hacksaw and cut the case and removed the powder from a factory round. I know, I know...its probably a proprietary powder that isn't available to the public. But I thought I would put this out there anyway. The powder on the right (in the plastic baggie) is the Barnes. The powder on the left is some H4350 that I put there for scale and color. This ammo shoots at around 2990 fps out of my gun. The box says 2960 fps, so its pretty close. I was able to save just about every grain of the powder when I cut it out, and the total weight of the charge is 69.1 grains.

 

[timotheius]

here's another view, zoomed out some.

 

[Salmonhead]

Kind of looks like Alliant power pro 4000 Mr, but I would think the charge would need to be higher. Most likely its unobtaonium anyway. The big places don't traditionally use cannister powder.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

I wouldn't try to guess what they are using especially buy looking at it dumped out of a cartridge. There are a lot of powders that look the same, but very different in burn rate. Why would you cut a case with a hacksaw instead of just pulling the bullet to measure the charge.
Best thing is to shoot it with a factory cartridge, Crono it and then look at reload books for a comparison of powders with fps with the bullet weight/brand.
Then you can start a ladder test and find a good load to shoot when you get your accuracy.

 

[timotheius]

I wouldn't try to guess what they are using especially buy looking at it dumped out of a cartridge. There are a lot of powders that look the same, but very different in burn rate. Why would you cut a case with a hacksaw instead of just pulling the bullet to measure the charge.
Best thing is to shoot it with a factory cartridge, Crono it and then look at reload books for a comparison of powders with fps with the bullet weight/brand.
Then you can start a ladder test and find a good load to shoot when you get your accuracy.

Yeah, I tried using one of those hammer type impact bullet pullers with no luck. The neck tension is so tight on this factory ammo I would have been swinging that bullet puller for hours. The hacksaw took about 60 seconds. Even then, with the case split open, I had to use a steel punch and a hammer to pound the bullet out. I think sometimes ammo manufacturers use some kind of sealant or glue or something when they seat the bullet. Also, I have already chronorgraphed the round. It avereaged 2990 fps out of my barrel. I tried to duplicate that with RL-22 and H1000. And while I could get the same velocity, I never really got the same accuracy.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

If you can't figure out the powder, Have you tried taking the CBTO on this and repeating it with powders you have.

I shot the same COAL on several 150 TTSX and 175 LRX loads with H1000, Rl17, and Rl22 in my 300 WM. Seating depth was the key to them...Depending on your ranges the RL22 may be your powder. Gained crazy speed over H1000 with the 175 LRX. I wouldn't be concerned with temp sensitivtiy with it shooting the monos as the range probably won't affect it enough to see enough in your drops.

Factory probably is giving them a crimp too. Probably why so tough to take apart. Probably gives them a little for the accuracy as well.

 

[Roughrice]

Just a guess, but... the shiny smaller kernels look similar to Hybrid 100V, Norma 204 and Viht N-165 out of my powder collection. I'm sure, of course, there are others that look similar. Those are near but slower than H4350 with N-165 the slowest.

 

[timotheius]

I checked the Barnes reloading manual and the closest charge weight and velocity I found was IMR 4350 listed at 69.3 grains at 3003 fps. That's not far from the round I cut open and weighed at 69.1 grains that chronographed at an average of 2990 fps.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Just the charge weight you mention has it in the 4350 burn rate range. H1000 was about 75gr or so for me.

 

[Hatrick]

If your pulling stuck bullets. Use you bullet seater to push the bullet in a hair and then pull it.
Tom

 

[Roughrice]

Just the charge weight you mention has it in the 4350 burn rate range. H1000 was about 75gr or so for me.

Hybrid 100V and Norma 204 have similar charge weights and similar burn rate as H4350 and, in appearance, look like the picture shown.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Find a powder that, at the same charge weight, gives you the same velocity and you will be in the ballpark. With enough experimentation you may even find a more accurate load.

 

[Orange Dust]

Find a powder that, at the same charge weight, gives you the same velocity and you will be in the ballpark. With enough experimentation you may even find a more accurate load.

what he said. Ammo manufacturers normally do not use canister grade powder. They buy bulk powder and work up a new load with each lot. We should do the same, even canister grade powders vary from lot to lot and its why I never buy powder in 1lb cans unless it is for a cartridge that uses 10 grs or less. Sometimes they vary a lot.

 

[General RE LEE]

I highly recommend Hornady cam lock bullet puller.