HBN

[Orange Dust]

I have learned a lot from this forum, but never posted before. I know several of you use HBN. I've been using it for awhile. It is amazing in my .224TTH. I have some guns that could care less. The question is I've been playing with it in a 300RUM. Little bullets coat easily and come out grey. Long 30 cal bullets seem to be a challenge for me. I clean them with acetone, then tumble in clean corncob. Put them in pill bottles and vibrate. Bullets alone, doesn't stick. Bullets and steel shot, bad idea, eats the bullets as much as coating them. Last time I tried mixing 25, 30 cal with 100 .224 V-Max's. After 2-1/2hrs they looked great until I wiped them with a towel. They have a very thin coat that can only be described as satin clear. $100 question: Is this enough? Anyone know the trick for the even grey look that is so easy to achieve with small calibers.

 

[mtwarych]

I use moly on my stuff.
I would like to recommend using Lyman ceramic media for tumbling your slugs.
The ceramic media does a much better job at coating than steel shot.

I would think it is the size of your media that is giving you the problems with even coating because I think HBN is molecular.

Anyway, good luck with your coating, with moly, not all makes of bullets tumble to the same color due to the make up of the jacket material. Hornady bullets come out different color than the Nosler accubond.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I need to follow this.

 

[Orange Dust]

Anyway, good luck with your coating, with moly, not all makes of bullets tumble to the same color due to the make up of the jacket material. Hornady bullets come out different color than the Nosler accubond.[/QUOTE]


.224 bullets I coat are Swift Sciroccs. Problem bullets are 30 cal 180gr Sciroccs and Berger 210's.

 

[Pdvdh]

Last time I tried mixing 25, 30 cal with 100 .224 V-Max's. After 2-1/2hrs they looked great until I wiped them with a towel. They have a very thin coat that can only be described as satin clear. $100 question: Is this enough? Anyone know the trick for the even grey look that is so easy to achieve with small calibers.

My method is similar, however I've been pre-heating my bullets just prior to vibratory tumbling in HBN powder. I clean bullets with acetone. Air dry a short period of time and then preheat bullets to ~ 160F - 170F in oven, just prior to placing hot bullets in white plastic pill bottle with HBN powder. No tumbling media - just bullets and HBN powder. Place in vibratory tumbler while hot and tumble for 50-60 minutes. No problems thus far. Some batches look a little different than others, but they've all taken on a film of HBN.

I've also used 1/8" round stainless steel pellets. Good results with them also. But I now use no media in my vibratory tumbler. Just hot bullets and HBN powder.

I had a recent experience tumbling bullets with exposed lead tips - pointed soft points - which I didn't like. The Hornady Interlock bullets I tumbled with the exposed PSP lead tips turned my HBN powder and pill bottle a nasty toxic lead color. Not sure if the lead was preventing the coating of the bullets with HBN or not. The bullets looked different, but felt pretty slick. I wasn't sure so I tumbled them a second time. No difference. Puky lead coloring inside my white plastic bottle a second time. When I wiped the excess HBN powder off the tumbled bullets, my white bath towel was stained lead-colored. I won't be tumbling Hornady exposed lead tipped bullets any time soon. Now I had previously tumbled some Nosler Partitions with exposed lead tips and the lead on the Noslers didn't smear off and color my white pill bottle a blackish gray lead color. So as mentioned, not all bullets and brands of bullets are identical.

 

[Orange Dust]

Have you tried heating plastic tipped bullets? Wonder how much temp they can take before softening? I've also been concerned about the possibility of the powder plugging the hollow points in the Berger VLD's.

 

[Orange Dust]

I'm beginning to wonder if it is a problem of scale. I have a small Lyman vib tumbler. This dictates small batches in small bottles. Wonder if I need their big tumbler and bigger bottles?

 

[Pdvdh]

Have you tried heating plastic tipped bullets? Wonder how much temp they can take before softening? I've also been concerned about the possibility of the powder plugging the hollow points in the Berger VLD's.

Yes, I've heated plastic-tipped bullets. Both Nosler and Hornady bullets. Not a problem up to 170F. I don't set my oven any higher than 180F. Leave the bullets in there for maybe 20 minutes on a clean dinner plate. Just set the oven temp to no more than 180F. 160F if you're prone to worrying.

HBN powder plugging the hollow points on Berger VLDs is a non-issue when HBN coat using my vibratory tumbler. The bigger problem with Berger VLDs is that the tips on a small percentage of the jackets are pinched shut with their bullet forming dies during manufacturing. Those are the ones that are most apt to fail to expand on game animals. Which is why I ensure they all have a void in the tip of the jackets before I hunt with them.

 

[Pdvdh]

I'm beginning to wonder if it is a problem of scale. I have a small Lyman vib tumbler. This dictates small batches in small bottles. Wonder if I need their big tumbler and bigger bottles?

Yeah, I dunno what size/power vibratory tumbler you have. I'm using the one sold by Cabela's. If you're vibratory tumbler gets overloaded or is underpowered, that could be a problem. But that problem would be more generated based on weight/loading rather than the size of the bullets - up to an extent. I think...

This is the Vibratory tumbler I purchased and use:Cabela's Model 400 Vibratory Case Tumbler Kit : Cabela's

 

[mtwarych]

I use the small Lyman tumbler also.

The difference is I use the ceramic media to tumble my stuff.

The reason I use this method is I can tumble as many as 300 bullets at a time.
I use a kitty litter pooper scooper to pick the bullets out of the media, put all the slugs into a white cotton towel, use the towel like a bowling ball polishing cloth and that removes all extra dust.

I still think the OP should try the ceramic media. It does a good job and gets the moly into all nooks and crannies, at least for me.

I have molly'd bullets for a long time now, very rarely do different brands and different size bullets come out the same color. My varmint bullets will come out black as night while my heavies will come out pretty much dark orange or something like it. If the OP is following the procedures used with HBN, I am sure the OP's slugs are coated properly.

I have not used HBN but I will research whats up and if it appears a better product I will be happy to change. As of now, moly does what it is supposed to. I think.

I need to add that I use a moly dedicated bowl for my tumbler, I just switch bowls depending whether I am applying moly or cleaning brass.

 

[Orange Dust]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner. I'm not an engineer, and don't play one on TV, but I got to thinking about what has changed beside the size of the bullets. I've always done this before in the summer, with ambient heat in the garage over 100 deg, and the bullets get even hotter during the process, so Phorwath's suggestion made sense after thinking about it. The failure I had was @50 deg. The Moly method of using ceramic I don't think will work, simply because moly sticks to everything and is a coating process, but HBN sticks to nothing and has to be beat into the bullets (impact plating). I feel introducing an abrasive will impede the process. Anyway I learned something and got my bullets coated no problem by warming them. After all this you may be wondering the result; Fantastic! I'll share it with those of you who may be interested:

The rifle in a brand new Sendero II. Before even shooting it I made these small modifications. Sent it to a gunsmith and had a brake installed and the crown recut. When I got it back I skim bedded it and installed a Timney trigger. Then I loaded 50 rounds of Tubbs firelapping bullets and shot them per instructions. Took the fireformed brass (Norma) and neck turned, trimmed, trued primer pockets, deburred and trued flash holes. Brass was then partial resized in a full length die ( a little more than half way down the neck). All loaded ammo then trued within .002. OAL max for magazine.

Ladder test 95-100 grs retumbo
97-99 shot into an inch at about 350yds. 99 shows ejector mark

Cleaned barrel with foaming bore cleaner and CR10

Loaded 97.5 grs and went to 100yd indoor range. It was raining.

First shot cold clean barrel 3" high. Second shot, same hole. Third shot, genius here pulled 1/2" to the left. Fourth shot, same hole as first two. Went home happy. Vel dev is near nothing. Works just like it did in the custom rifle I have. Duplicated everything with RE25 @ the same time. Result was 3/4" @100. Retumbo was 1/2" but 3 were in about a 35 cal hole.

This weekend will shoot @ 500 and 880 to proof velocity. The next weekend deer stand overlooking a really big beanfield. Thought you guys said a RUM was fussy.

 

[Orange Dust]

BTW. So excited I forgot my manners. A big Thank You to Phorwath. I would not have figured it out without your help!!!

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks for sharing the results. You're the second Forum member that has reported that heating the bullets prior to HBN coating improved the HBN impact plating in a vibratory tumbler.

I've never vibratory tumbled without pre-heating the bullets, so I have no experience without pre-heating the bullets. I had read from others sharing their opinion (on other Forums) that they felt pre-heating the bullets improved their HBN bullet coating process, so I began with pre-heated bullets, and have never had a problem HBN coating bullets thus far.

 

[Orange Dust]

Are you seeing what I am? Very low deviations in overbore cartridges, consistent points of impact? This stuff seems to make more of a difference in overbore cartridges in my experience, but I haven't tried it in a truly match grade long range small cartridge / rifle either.