Free Bore

haisardao

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Question for those knowledgeable people here,
How do you decide what freebore to pick on a custom chambering? I know it's related to the bullet planned to be used but how do you come to the number you tell JGS, Manson etc?
Thanks
H
 
You need to measure the case from the base to exactly where the ogive ends on the seated bullet. You can use a bullet comparator to do this, then add .010", or you can put the numbers into a machining program and it will tell you.
Call JGS and ask them if they want dummy rounds to measure from.
I have always made dummy rounds with the boattail of the bullet below the neck/shoulder juncture but the expansion ring .005"-.010" above that point.

Cheers.
 
You need to measure the case from the base to exactly where the ogive ends on the seated bullet. You can use a bullet comparator to do this, then add .010", or you can put the numbers into a machining program and it will tell you.
Call JGS and ask them if they want dummy rounds to measure from.
I have always made dummy rounds with the boattail of the bullet below the neck/shoulder juncture but the expansion ring .005"-.010" above that point.

Cheers.
Thanks, this was very informative
 
Question for those knowledgeable people here,
How do you decide what freebore to pick on a custom chambering? I know it's related to the bullet planned to be used but how do you come to the number you tell JGS, Manson etc?
Thanks
H





IIWY, I'd follow @MagnumManiac (I how the heck are you doing, Brother? I hope you are well. 🙏) advice on making and sending a dummy round.

Yes, it depends on the primary bullet you are going to use. For instance, in my .338 Thor (.338 Norma Magnum improved), I asked for reamer prints for the .338 NM/I from Manson and JGS as my baseline. Dave Manson built my spec reamer before he retired. If you want to be able to use longer bullets, then you make the SAAMI freebore spec longer.

.338 Thor cut-out 300 Berger 3.7 COAL.jpg


Because I knew I had enough COAL for my intended purpose, I kept the freebore at SAAMI spec. As pictured above, it has a COAL of 3.7" (touching the lands) on a 3.750" CIP LM mag with a .300 Berger. As per Greg, this is the ideal configuration. The rifle was built primarily for 250/300 Berger. If I have to use any bullet longer than the 300 Berger, I would have to seat them deeper.

Good luck!
 
Been handloading since the early 80s. I am a hunter not a target shooter. I thought I might add my thoughts on this subject. Sorry it is a bit lengthy.

I find the more recent discussion of freebore interesting. Ever since the VLD style bullets hit the market and handloaders discovered how finicky these bullets were, requiring engagement of the lands, this issue became an obsession for many shooters. (I realize that Berger suggests trying four seating depths from engagement to tens of thousandths off the lands)

The way handloaders did it for decades before VLDs, was to seat a bullet as long as possible to fit and feed from the magazine. Then check to see if the bullet was contacting the lands. (Bet there are a few, including me, who have ended up with a bullet in the bore because we overlooked this important detail.) If the bullet must contact the lands there must be sufficient neck grip or shallow engagement to allow the round to be removed. With the bullet seated this way the powder charge weights were determined and load development began. That was all most of us ever did. It shot or it didn't.

With more emphasis on seating depth some of us began to tweak the original seating depth as mentioned above and seated incrementally deeper to find better accuracy. I believe it was knowledge that most of us were not aware of back in the 80s.

With SAMMI spec chambers and "regular" hunting bullets using random seating depths the bullets worked just fine. Sierra, Nosler, Hornady and Speer bullets shot great groups and killed many animals. Heck even Weatherby chamberings with their huge freebores shot well.

I will admit even I have succumbed to the knowledge of ogive/land distances. I own over a dozen custom reamers with specs that will work well for a magazine's length and the bullet of choice. I even shoot some of the VLD hunting bullets requiring a short throat to get them to kiss the lands.

To answer Haisardao's question: If I want a custom reamer made I make a dummy round and specify the leade angle and distance from the bullet's ogive to lands engagement.

Then the game changer showed up due to the brilliance of Bryan Litz, Berger's ballistician. The hybrid bullet was created. IMO no one should have to chase the lands just seat the bullet to fit and feed from a magazine! I have helped many friends make loads for their rifles as well as my own.

It is as easy as seating the bullet to properly fit and feed from the magazine. They truly are seating depth insensitive. Just work up your powder charge from there. All the hunting rifles I have loaded this way have responded with excellent groups. I don't bother to actually know the distance to the lands! I do check a dummy round by polishing the bullet with fine steel wool and chambering it to see if it is engaging the lands ensuring the bullet isn't deep into the rifling.

To date all the hybrid Bergers listed below have performed well without the angst of land engagement.

Rifles loaded with Berger hybrids to date:

7-08 168 classic hunter hybrid
284 win 168 classic hunter hybrid and 180 match target hybrid
Four 7 Rem mags 168 classic hunter hybrid
7 mag and 180 target hybrid
308 215 match hybrid
308 with 168 classic hunter
Two 338 RCMs 300 gr OTM hybird
6-284 95 gr classic hunter hybrid
four 300 RUMs 230 gr berger match target hybrid
300 WSM 230 gr berger match target hybrid
two 300 Win mags 215 Berger match target hybrid
two 338 RUMS with 300 gr OTMs
 
Been handloading since the early 80s. I am a hunter not a target shooter. I thought I might add my thoughts on this subject. Sorry it is a bit lengthy.

I find the more recent discussion of freebore interesting. Ever since the VLD style bullets hit the market and handloaders discovered how finicky these bullets were, requiring engagement of the lands, this issue became an obsession for many shooters. (I realize that Berger suggests trying four seating depths from engagement to tens of thousandths off the lands)

The way handloaders did it for decades before VLDs, was to seat a bullet as long as possible to fit and feed from the magazine. Then check to see if the bullet was contacting the lands. (Bet there are a few, including me, who have ended up with a bullet in the bore because we overlooked this important detail.) If the bullet must contact the lands there must be sufficient neck grip or shallow engagement to allow the round to be removed. With the bullet seated this way the powder charge weights were determined and load development began. That was all most of us ever did. It shot or it didn't.

With more emphasis on seating depth some of us began to tweak the original seating depth as mentioned above and seated incrementally deeper to find better accuracy. I believe it was knowledge that most of us were not aware of back in the 80s.

With SAMMI spec chambers and "regular" hunting bullets using random seating depths the bullets worked just fine. Sierra, Nosler, Hornady and Speer bullets shot great groups and killed many animals. Heck even Weatherby chamberings with their huge freebores shot well.

I will admit even I have succumbed to the knowledge of ogive/land distances. I own over a dozen custom reamers with specs that will work well for a magazine's length and the bullet of choice. I even shoot some of the VLD hunting bullets requiring a short throat to get them to kiss the lands.

To answer Haisardao's question: If I want a custom reamer made I make a dummy round and specify the leade angle and distance from the bullet's ogive to lands engagement.

Then the game changer showed up due to the brilliance of Bryan Litz, Berger's ballistician. The hybrid bullet was created. IMO no one should have to chase the lands just seat the bullet to fit and feed from a magazine! I have helped many friends make loads for their rifles as well as my own.

It is as easy as seating the bullet to properly fit and feed from the magazine. They truly are seating depth insensitive. Just work up your powder charge from there. All the hunting rifles I have loaded this way have responded with excellent groups. I don't bother to actually know the distance to the lands! I do check a dummy round by polishing the bullet with fine steel wool and chambering it to see if it is engaging the lands ensuring the bullet isn't deep into the rifling.

To date all the hybrid Bergers listed below have performed well without the angst of land engagement.

Rifles loaded with Berger hybrids to date:

7-08 168 classic hunter hybrid
284 win 168 classic hunter hybrid and 180 match target hybrid
Four 7 Rem mags 168 classic hunter hybrid
7 mag and 180 target hybrid
308 215 match hybrid
308 with 168 classic hunter
Two 338 RCMs 300 gr OTM hybird
6-284 95 gr classic hunter hybrid
four 300 RUMs 230 gr berger match target hybrid
300 WSM 230 gr berger match target hybrid
two 300 Win mags 215 Berger match target hybrid
two 338 RUMS with 300 gr OTMs
Thanks for the thoughtful response
 
Interesting, I still have to play with either powder or seating depth ( or both) even with the hybrids to achieve the most accuracy. I recently shot with a guy who had a 6.5 creedmoor built and told them he just wanted to shoot factory 143 eldx. It shot amazing. I assumed they knew exactly how much freebore would shoot great with their barrel when they chambered it. Also noticed barely any growth in the once fired brass.
 
Don't short yourself on FB.
I know you like performance, no need in a boat tail taking up valuable powder capacity.
If hybrids are on the menu it seems they always perform in some multiple of .030 off the lands, or something close to it.
And guys here report wide and stable nodes back to .090-.120 off.
Maybe we need to throat em all that way.?
Berger/Weatherby=Bergerby? Wergerby?
 
Don't short yourself on FB.
I know you like performance, no need in a boat tail taking up valuable powder capacity.
If hybrids are on the menu it seems they always perform in some multiple of .030 off the lands, or something close to it.
And guys here report wide and stable nodes back to .090-.120 off.
Maybe we need to throat em all that way.?
Berger/Weatherby=Bergerby? Wergerby?
Thanks for the input Phil!
 

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